The party has received a Likud guarantee that its schools will not be forced to choose between accepting government funding and rejecting the Dovrat Committee educational reforms that would force it to change its curriculum. The new coalition agreement provides that the schools will continue to be funded while not being obligated to accept the reforms. A judicially-accepted solution to this has not yet been found, however.
Gafni spoke with Arutz-7's Emanuel Shilo last night, shortly after the hareidi party announced its decision to join the coalition. The Knesset Member first wished to emphasize that the decision was not made by Rabbi Elyashiv alone, but rather by the entire Council of Torah Sages.
Shilo said, "But it appears that most of the 15 Sages on the Council 'returned the question to the questioner' [it was reported that 3 were in favor, 3 were against, and the rest did not take a stand - ed.]..."
Gafni: "I'm not a spokesman for the Council of Torah Sages. The decision we received is that we – MKs Ravitz and I [of the Degel HaTorah faction of UTJ] – should join the government for a period of three months, during which we will see and judge whether the ideological issues will be solved. I am referring to the heavy damage that was caused to Torah Judaism in the country, in areas of Torah education, the status quo between state and religion, Torah institutions, the provision of religious services, etc. During these three months, we [Ravitz and I] will not assume government positions. We will essentially be with one foot in and one foot out. If at any point during this time we see that it's not being done, we'll leave, and if things advance, we'll stay."
.
Gafni noted that his party will vote in favor of the budget next week, "in accordance with an agreement we signed a few weeks ago [and that led to Shinui's departure from the coalition]. Regarding disengagement and the compensation/evacuation law – we are not part of the Government [but only of the coalition], and we will not have to vote on it when it comes up for a Cabinet vote. When it comes up for a Knesset vote – G-d will help."
Q. "Which means?"
A. "G-d will help."
Q. "Do you feel comfortable that the public perception is that UTJ has decided to facilitate the uprooting of Gush Katif?"
A. "This is not the case. Our decision is not relevant to the disengagement. We voted against it. PM Sharon made a coalition with the National Union and the National Religious Party, and with the Likud's chief partner Shinui that announced that they 'have no share in the G-d of Israel', that they are throwing out all the religious issues and concerns. And so we made every effort during this time, and we succeeded, thank G-d, in getting Shinui thrown out of the coalition when we signed the budget agreement. We also know that the disengagement was passed in the government – a right-wing government, by the way - and also in the Knesset with the help of the left-wing and a large part of the Likud. We voted against it.
"If we didn't join the coalition now, many things could have happened – but it doesn't matter; he has a majority in the Knesset, with the help of the left-wing and the Arabs, etc. He even could have brought Shinui back into the coalition. True, I agree that it is more likely that there would have been new elections –"
Q. "In which event Sharon might have lost, or may not have been the Likud's candidate at all, such that your decision has very great significance regarding the implementation of the disengagement."
A. "Yes, there were many options and scenarios. I'd like to tell you our order of priorities: First of all, that the Jewish people here must remain a Jewish nation. Only in that merit do we have a claim to the Land of Israel. Over the past two years, with this coalition of Likud-NU-NRP-Shinui, we could have lost our claim to the Land of Israel, not just to Gush Katif, and that we have to avoid at all costs. ... I agree with you: There is a very difficult decision here, a very hard one, and that's why we – Ravitz and I – did not get involved, and it took the Council four days of very hard deliberations to come up with this decision."
Q. "If Modiin Illit [Kiryat Sefer] or Beitar Illit [hareidi cities in Yesha] would have been at stake, would the decision have been the same?"
A. "It would have been the same. Gush Katif is [also] a region that is full of yeshivot and Talmud Torahs for children, it's a place of Torah in every sense, and in general – Jews live there. I think that this question is not legitimate, and is even a bit offensive..."
Gafni said that among the Torah Sages there are different views as to how dangerous Israel's continued presence in Gush Katif is: "I don't take a position on this issue; it's too big for me. Everything will be tested and reviewed over the next three months, and it could very well be that three months from now I'll be back in the opposition."
Q. "You don't really trust Prime Minister Sharon that much, do you?"
A. "Very true. This is one of the reasons why the decision was so hard. We are not a ruling party; from our standpoint, the [Jewish] regime here is de facto and not a-priori, and so is our joining the coalition. We don't accept ministerial posts even when the coalition is more in keeping with our spirit. We don't feel that the State is the 'beginning of the redemption,' and that therefore we have to be part of the regime. We are always praying for the Messiah to arrive, and therefore we hope that the disengagement will not be carried out and that the Messiah will come first."
Q. "Your decision is not some sort of revenge against the NRP for joining the government with Shinui?"
A. "Oh, please. That's not a nice question to ask. If I would have made the decision, it would have been a legitimate question, even though it would have been wrong. But when it's made by the Council of Sages, can you really think that they think that way?"
Q. "Thank you very much, and we will follow closely how the coalition proceeds."
A. "We are not going through easy times."
Gafni spoke with Arutz-7's Emanuel Shilo last night, shortly after the hareidi party announced its decision to join the coalition. The Knesset Member first wished to emphasize that the decision was not made by Rabbi Elyashiv alone, but rather by the entire Council of Torah Sages.
Shilo said, "But it appears that most of the 15 Sages on the Council 'returned the question to the questioner' [it was reported that 3 were in favor, 3 were against, and the rest did not take a stand - ed.]..."
Gafni: "I'm not a spokesman for the Council of Torah Sages. The decision we received is that we – MKs Ravitz and I [of the Degel HaTorah faction of UTJ] – should join the government for a period of three months, during which we will see and judge whether the ideological issues will be solved. I am referring to the heavy damage that was caused to Torah Judaism in the country, in areas of Torah education, the status quo between state and religion, Torah institutions, the provision of religious services, etc. During these three months, we [Ravitz and I] will not assume government positions. We will essentially be with one foot in and one foot out. If at any point during this time we see that it's not being done, we'll leave, and if things advance, we'll stay."
.
Gafni noted that his party will vote in favor of the budget next week, "in accordance with an agreement we signed a few weeks ago [and that led to Shinui's departure from the coalition]. Regarding disengagement and the compensation/evacuation law – we are not part of the Government [but only of the coalition], and we will not have to vote on it when it comes up for a Cabinet vote. When it comes up for a Knesset vote – G-d will help."
Q. "Which means?"
A. "G-d will help."
Q. "Do you feel comfortable that the public perception is that UTJ has decided to facilitate the uprooting of Gush Katif?"
A. "This is not the case. Our decision is not relevant to the disengagement. We voted against it. PM Sharon made a coalition with the National Union and the National Religious Party, and with the Likud's chief partner Shinui that announced that they 'have no share in the G-d of Israel', that they are throwing out all the religious issues and concerns. And so we made every effort during this time, and we succeeded, thank G-d, in getting Shinui thrown out of the coalition when we signed the budget agreement. We also know that the disengagement was passed in the government – a right-wing government, by the way - and also in the Knesset with the help of the left-wing and a large part of the Likud. We voted against it.
"If we didn't join the coalition now, many things could have happened – but it doesn't matter; he has a majority in the Knesset, with the help of the left-wing and the Arabs, etc. He even could have brought Shinui back into the coalition. True, I agree that it is more likely that there would have been new elections –"
Q. "In which event Sharon might have lost, or may not have been the Likud's candidate at all, such that your decision has very great significance regarding the implementation of the disengagement."
A. "Yes, there were many options and scenarios. I'd like to tell you our order of priorities: First of all, that the Jewish people here must remain a Jewish nation. Only in that merit do we have a claim to the Land of Israel. Over the past two years, with this coalition of Likud-NU-NRP-Shinui, we could have lost our claim to the Land of Israel, not just to Gush Katif, and that we have to avoid at all costs. ... I agree with you: There is a very difficult decision here, a very hard one, and that's why we – Ravitz and I – did not get involved, and it took the Council four days of very hard deliberations to come up with this decision."
Q. "If Modiin Illit [Kiryat Sefer] or Beitar Illit [hareidi cities in Yesha] would have been at stake, would the decision have been the same?"
A. "It would have been the same. Gush Katif is [also] a region that is full of yeshivot and Talmud Torahs for children, it's a place of Torah in every sense, and in general – Jews live there. I think that this question is not legitimate, and is even a bit offensive..."
Gafni said that among the Torah Sages there are different views as to how dangerous Israel's continued presence in Gush Katif is: "I don't take a position on this issue; it's too big for me. Everything will be tested and reviewed over the next three months, and it could very well be that three months from now I'll be back in the opposition."
Q. "You don't really trust Prime Minister Sharon that much, do you?"
A. "Very true. This is one of the reasons why the decision was so hard. We are not a ruling party; from our standpoint, the [Jewish] regime here is de facto and not a-priori, and so is our joining the coalition. We don't accept ministerial posts even when the coalition is more in keeping with our spirit. We don't feel that the State is the 'beginning of the redemption,' and that therefore we have to be part of the regime. We are always praying for the Messiah to arrive, and therefore we hope that the disengagement will not be carried out and that the Messiah will come first."
Q. "Your decision is not some sort of revenge against the NRP for joining the government with Shinui?"
A. "Oh, please. That's not a nice question to ask. If I would have made the decision, it would have been a legitimate question, even though it would have been wrong. But when it's made by the Council of Sages, can you really think that they think that way?"
Q. "Thank you very much, and we will follow closely how the coalition proceeds."
A. "We are not going through easy times."