An ad in Ha'aretz this week reads as follows: "It's been a while now that the religious-Zionist movement has been mired in a deep crisis. All religious-Zionist thought, and most of its daily agenda, is based on one idea alone: the struggle for the areas of Judea, Samaria and Gaza. On the altar of this struggle, it sacrifices what should have been its main mission: the effort to stimulate Torah life amidst the current reality of the Jewish Nation's state." Some 120 religious youths are signed on the announcement, part of a group called "Realistic Religious Zionism." Nir Sheetrit, informally representing the signatory organization, spoke with Arutz-7 today.
A-7: So, Nir, you're the only ones who are realistic, and everyone else is not?
Nir: All of religious-Zionism as a movement is dealing with something that in our eyes is not realistic - holding on to the territories…
A-7: Aren't you being a bit high-minded? You're entitled to argue, of course, but -
Nir: I think that Religious Zionists themselves say that they're not realistic - but they say that that's OK, because it was also not realistic to establish the State of Israel at the time…
A-7: Yes. Now, essentially you guys are just Meimadniks, so what's special about you? [Meimad is a left-wing religious Zionist movement.]
Nir: No, we're not Meimadniks, for the simple reason that Meimad does not sound its voice as much as we do. Secondly, Meimad is mostly professors, but we are simple people... But most of all, we are different in that we don't put "peace" at the top of our agenda -
A-7: - rather, withdrawal from Yesha [is your main goal].
Nir: Exactly. Peace is not a realistic goal in the foreseeable future, there's no one with whom to make peace. Withdrawal is the goal.
A-7: You live in the Golan, and you want to be uprooted from your home?
Nir: I do not *want* to, Heaven forbid. If, in order to make peace with the Syrians, I will have to leave my home, I will have no problem doing that.
A-7: I saw that your signatories are almost all Jerusalemites, and hardly anyone living in Yesha.
Nir: There are several who lived in Efrat and Alon Shvut - lived, in the past.
A-7: So what do you want Religious Zionism to do instead of concentrating on Yesha?
Nir: I want it to begin dealing with the burning problems faced by Religious Zionism, such as relations of church and state - an issue that has been criminally neglected. Also social gaps - not just among Jews… but among Israeli citizens, i.e., Arabs too, which are the most neglected population in the world. Have you heard any rabbi calling out on this issue, calling upon society to deal with the 'citizen and sojourner who lives among you'? That would be absurd, right?
A-7: Let me turn to Elyashiv Reichner. You are [one of the staff] at the B'yachad [Together] Seminar in Yerucham in the Negev. What is this Seminar?
Elyashiv: It is an institute established to deal with the social issues that Nir mentioned. Some 60 groups pass through here each year, many of which are from yeshiva high schools in Yesha.
A-7: You were born in Yerucham?
Elyashiv: No, I was born in Alon Shvut, and grew up in Efrat where my parents still live. I arrived in Yerucham about ten years ago after learning here in yeshiva.
A-7: Your parents didn't educate you that the most important thing is to live in Yesha?
Elyashiv: No, not at all, they are happy that I'm here, and I don't think that they are alone in that position. If you will, I am upset at this petition chiefly because of one sentence stating that Religious Zionism operates only on one axis - Yesha. This is an old claim, detached from reality. Let me give some examples of prominent Yesha personalities, who invest most of their time in other spheres. Rabbi Medan, for instance, whose right-wing political views are known, has been spending much of his time on religion and state. Yisrael Harel, a leading Yesha figure…
Nir: My question is, what are the issues that they cry out about? When a Yesha town is to be dismantled, there is a big cry and protest - but is there a similar cry when the State allows illegitimate children to marry?
Elyashiv: In general, I'm not in favor of yelling, but rather in favor of actions. I -
Nir: But the public that you are coming to defend cries out at dismantling towns, but not at un-Halakhic marriages or the fact the State subsidizes houses of idol-worship!
Elyashiv: I say again, in terms of yelling, maybe we have what to learn. But the main thing is actions, and in this area, religious-Zionism has for a long while not been dealing with just one issue. There are 30 Torah core-groups in development towns…
A-7: You say that there is not enough crying out - is anyone stopping you from crying out? Why do you have to also call for the dismantling of settlements?
Nir: Because they are interdependent. Our presence in Yesha has exacted and is exacting from Israeli society a tremendous social price. The social gap in the nation is part of this. There are only 200,000 or 250,000 people that are dragging everyone else along by the nose, and they are making religion hated all over. How can I then go and try to bring people closer to Judaism?
A-7: Elyashiv, do you sense that the Yesha residents are forcing their will on the entire nation?
Elyashiv: No, not at all, it's not just one sector and they're not pulling along everyone else. There are many portions of the religious-Zionist movement that are dealing with many other things. I would like to also mention the Ohr Associations that establish towns in the Negev and the Galilee.
Nir: Do you know what the purpose of these associations is?
Elyashiv: Of course, it is to settle the Negev and the Galilee.
Nir: No no no, the purpose is to make sure that Arabs don't live there!
Elyashiv: Not at all, I invite you here to see if anyone here is trying to throw out Bedouin. There are millions of empty dunams of land here, and no one is bothering anyone or pushing anyone out. I am in favor of solving the Bedouin's problems, and in favor of building them communities… This is the most unoccupied place in all of Israel!
Nir: I am saying that the religious-Zionist society should be flying the flag of concern for the "citizen and the sojourner amongst you," yet this is the last thing that interests you.
A-7: Arabs, in your eyes, are 'sojourners?' After this week's news of the Israeli-Arabs arrested for aiding Hamas, and of those who carry out terrorist attacks - they are sojourners?!
Nir: What about the Jews who sold weapons to Arabs?
A-7: That's a ridiculous comparison. You know as well as I do that they are a tiny fraction.
Nir: …There is a sector of the population that is Palestinian, true, but since you [the State] didn't worry about them, don't be surprised that they turn against you.
A-7: Elyashiv, we'll let you have the last word.
Elyashiv: The bottom line is that I respect Nir's opinions - the 'religious left' has always been, and always will be - I have no problem with this. I only have a problem with the claim that religious-Zionism is dealing only with one thing. I say to the signers: on the contrary, take some action! Instead of signing petitions and then running right away to the media and receiving such coverage before you've even done anything - let's go! Build organizations, and let's hear from your actions, not your petitions.
A-7: Thank you both.
A-7: So, Nir, you're the only ones who are realistic, and everyone else is not?
Nir: All of religious-Zionism as a movement is dealing with something that in our eyes is not realistic - holding on to the territories…
A-7: Aren't you being a bit high-minded? You're entitled to argue, of course, but -
Nir: I think that Religious Zionists themselves say that they're not realistic - but they say that that's OK, because it was also not realistic to establish the State of Israel at the time…
A-7: Yes. Now, essentially you guys are just Meimadniks, so what's special about you? [Meimad is a left-wing religious Zionist movement.]
Nir: No, we're not Meimadniks, for the simple reason that Meimad does not sound its voice as much as we do. Secondly, Meimad is mostly professors, but we are simple people... But most of all, we are different in that we don't put "peace" at the top of our agenda -
A-7: - rather, withdrawal from Yesha [is your main goal].
Nir: Exactly. Peace is not a realistic goal in the foreseeable future, there's no one with whom to make peace. Withdrawal is the goal.
A-7: You live in the Golan, and you want to be uprooted from your home?
Nir: I do not *want* to, Heaven forbid. If, in order to make peace with the Syrians, I will have to leave my home, I will have no problem doing that.
A-7: I saw that your signatories are almost all Jerusalemites, and hardly anyone living in Yesha.
Nir: There are several who lived in Efrat and Alon Shvut - lived, in the past.
A-7: So what do you want Religious Zionism to do instead of concentrating on Yesha?
Nir: I want it to begin dealing with the burning problems faced by Religious Zionism, such as relations of church and state - an issue that has been criminally neglected. Also social gaps - not just among Jews… but among Israeli citizens, i.e., Arabs too, which are the most neglected population in the world. Have you heard any rabbi calling out on this issue, calling upon society to deal with the 'citizen and sojourner who lives among you'? That would be absurd, right?
A-7: Let me turn to Elyashiv Reichner. You are [one of the staff] at the B'yachad [Together] Seminar in Yerucham in the Negev. What is this Seminar?
Elyashiv: It is an institute established to deal with the social issues that Nir mentioned. Some 60 groups pass through here each year, many of which are from yeshiva high schools in Yesha.
A-7: You were born in Yerucham?
Elyashiv: No, I was born in Alon Shvut, and grew up in Efrat where my parents still live. I arrived in Yerucham about ten years ago after learning here in yeshiva.
A-7: Your parents didn't educate you that the most important thing is to live in Yesha?
Elyashiv: No, not at all, they are happy that I'm here, and I don't think that they are alone in that position. If you will, I am upset at this petition chiefly because of one sentence stating that Religious Zionism operates only on one axis - Yesha. This is an old claim, detached from reality. Let me give some examples of prominent Yesha personalities, who invest most of their time in other spheres. Rabbi Medan, for instance, whose right-wing political views are known, has been spending much of his time on religion and state. Yisrael Harel, a leading Yesha figure…
Nir: My question is, what are the issues that they cry out about? When a Yesha town is to be dismantled, there is a big cry and protest - but is there a similar cry when the State allows illegitimate children to marry?
Elyashiv: In general, I'm not in favor of yelling, but rather in favor of actions. I -
Nir: But the public that you are coming to defend cries out at dismantling towns, but not at un-Halakhic marriages or the fact the State subsidizes houses of idol-worship!
Elyashiv: I say again, in terms of yelling, maybe we have what to learn. But the main thing is actions, and in this area, religious-Zionism has for a long while not been dealing with just one issue. There are 30 Torah core-groups in development towns…
A-7: You say that there is not enough crying out - is anyone stopping you from crying out? Why do you have to also call for the dismantling of settlements?
Nir: Because they are interdependent. Our presence in Yesha has exacted and is exacting from Israeli society a tremendous social price. The social gap in the nation is part of this. There are only 200,000 or 250,000 people that are dragging everyone else along by the nose, and they are making religion hated all over. How can I then go and try to bring people closer to Judaism?
A-7: Elyashiv, do you sense that the Yesha residents are forcing their will on the entire nation?
Elyashiv: No, not at all, it's not just one sector and they're not pulling along everyone else. There are many portions of the religious-Zionist movement that are dealing with many other things. I would like to also mention the Ohr Associations that establish towns in the Negev and the Galilee.
Nir: Do you know what the purpose of these associations is?
Elyashiv: Of course, it is to settle the Negev and the Galilee.
Nir: No no no, the purpose is to make sure that Arabs don't live there!
Elyashiv: Not at all, I invite you here to see if anyone here is trying to throw out Bedouin. There are millions of empty dunams of land here, and no one is bothering anyone or pushing anyone out. I am in favor of solving the Bedouin's problems, and in favor of building them communities… This is the most unoccupied place in all of Israel!
Nir: I am saying that the religious-Zionist society should be flying the flag of concern for the "citizen and the sojourner amongst you," yet this is the last thing that interests you.
A-7: Arabs, in your eyes, are 'sojourners?' After this week's news of the Israeli-Arabs arrested for aiding Hamas, and of those who carry out terrorist attacks - they are sojourners?!
Nir: What about the Jews who sold weapons to Arabs?
A-7: That's a ridiculous comparison. You know as well as I do that they are a tiny fraction.
Nir: …There is a sector of the population that is Palestinian, true, but since you [the State] didn't worry about them, don't be surprised that they turn against you.
A-7: Elyashiv, we'll let you have the last word.
Elyashiv: The bottom line is that I respect Nir's opinions - the 'religious left' has always been, and always will be - I have no problem with this. I only have a problem with the claim that religious-Zionism is dealing only with one thing. I say to the signers: on the contrary, take some action! Instead of signing petitions and then running right away to the media and receiving such coverage before you've even done anything - let's go! Build organizations, and let's hear from your actions, not your petitions.
A-7: Thank you both.