Dr. Ahmad al-Kubaysi, head of the Iraqi Ulema Association, provides a unique insight into the attitudes and mentalities driving Iraqis, and perhaps the Arabs in general, in their relations with the West, and the US in particular. Dr. al-Kubaysi, an Iraqi, lived in exile until US-led forces liberated his homeland, yet he says that he opposed the war. In an interview with the London-based Saudi Arabian newspaper a-Sharq al-Awsat, al-Kubaysi explains why, how Iraqis should act now, and what the former Iraqi regime - that of Saddam Hussein - was like.
Dr. al-Kubaysi was asked if, in light of his recent statements calling for working with the US and insisting that they assist in reconstructing Iraq, he retreated from earlier positions he articulated against US intervention in his country.
He responded, “Sometimes, a retreat is more powerful than an attack, as the Prophet – God's peace and blessings be upon him – did in some of his battles. When the regime is in power, every honorable person must support his government if war is waged on it by an outside power, even if this person is a Jew, and even if he hates this government and is trying to uproot it. This stand is one of the requirements of honor, religion, Arabism, Islam, tribalism, and all meanings of values in the world. Otherwise, you will be a traitor, since the government should be uprooted by you, and not by your enemy. Therefore, our enthusiasm and defense before and during the war were meant to defend Iraq, and not Saddam. I was not going to act differently when my country went to war, even if its president was a dog.”
Al-Kubaysi also expressed the view that even now, after the Americans have vanquished Saddam Hussein’s regime, “any Iraqi, whoever he may be, even if he was Saddam Hussein, should not be handed over to a foreigner, since this will represent a moral crime against the Iraqi people. Every Iraqi, who helps in handing over any Iraqi official to foreigners, will be betraying his country and dignity....” However, trying Iraqis in Iraqi courtrooms may be beneficial for justice, al-Kubaysi contends, telling his interlocutor, “For your information, trying criminals in Iraq will be severer and tougher than trying them in the United States, because the Iraqis know the details of crimes, one by one. For your information, no Iraqi will testify against another Iraqi in a US court. But if there is an Iraqi court, terrible crimes will be revealed.”
Elsewhere in the interview, Dr. al-Kubaysi refers to his agreement to work with the Americans as a temporary necessity, saying, “God's prophet has set a good example for you when he reached an understanding with the Quraysh [tribe] in al-Hudaybiyah peace treaty. He made concessions that seemed unacceptable at the time. However, afterward, it turned out that those concessions represent an excellent lesson in political maneuvering.” It should be noted that the ten-year Hudaybiyah treaty with the Quraysh was abrogated by Mohammed within two years, once he felt he was strong enough to defeat the Quraysh and conquer their entire city, Mecca.
The Iraqi explains that he gathered many Iraqi opposition groups to “determine the method of dealing with the United States, after its occupation of our country became a fait accompli. As a result of this discussion, we found that the occupier has duties and obligations to fulfill and that without this occupier's fulfillment of its duties, Iraq will not exist in order for us to regain it.... We said that this occupier must not leave [Iraq] before it does this and fulfill what is required of it.” As for the possibility of establishing an Islamic state in place of American occupation, Dr. al-Kubaysi says, “It would be mean to lie, cheat, and claim that you want to set up an Islamic state, when you could not establish such a state throughout 15 centuries, while you were at the height of your power and had an army.”
Dr. al-Kubaysi tells the a-Sharq al-Awsat interviewer that he doesn’t fear the American reaction to his presence in the country, despite his previous opposition to American intervention. The interviewer asked, “But weren't you afraid that the Americans would do to you as the former regime did? For example, weren't you afraid of being arrested, especially since your stands during the war and in the Friday sermon were against the Americans?”
Al-Kubaysi replied, “Nobody, not even Israel, is like the former regime. Israel has known and familiar methods, since they [Israeli forces] arrest and kill people. But nobody knows, or is familiar with, the methods of the former regime. The Americans are too smart to kill or arrest someone, whom all the Iraqis know and support. They are smarter and more wicked than that.”
He later provides a folk saying that characterized life under Saddam Hussein: “[S]ome people say: If you see two Egyptians whispering to each other, then they are talking about a woman; and if you see two Syrians whispering to each other, then they are discussing a business deal. But if you see two Iraqis whispering to each other, then they are insulting the government. Political opposition runs in the blood of Iraqis.”
Historically, al-Kubaysi explains, “Iraq was a victim. The communists came and robbed it, and the Ba'thists came and spent its revenues on weapons, palaces, and [private] farms. We have not benefitted a single dirham from oil. No matter how much the Americans steal now, we will get more [money] than that we used to get during the rule of Saddam Hussein and his predecessors.”
Dr. al-Kubaysi was asked if, in light of his recent statements calling for working with the US and insisting that they assist in reconstructing Iraq, he retreated from earlier positions he articulated against US intervention in his country.
He responded, “Sometimes, a retreat is more powerful than an attack, as the Prophet – God's peace and blessings be upon him – did in some of his battles. When the regime is in power, every honorable person must support his government if war is waged on it by an outside power, even if this person is a Jew, and even if he hates this government and is trying to uproot it. This stand is one of the requirements of honor, religion, Arabism, Islam, tribalism, and all meanings of values in the world. Otherwise, you will be a traitor, since the government should be uprooted by you, and not by your enemy. Therefore, our enthusiasm and defense before and during the war were meant to defend Iraq, and not Saddam. I was not going to act differently when my country went to war, even if its president was a dog.”
Al-Kubaysi also expressed the view that even now, after the Americans have vanquished Saddam Hussein’s regime, “any Iraqi, whoever he may be, even if he was Saddam Hussein, should not be handed over to a foreigner, since this will represent a moral crime against the Iraqi people. Every Iraqi, who helps in handing over any Iraqi official to foreigners, will be betraying his country and dignity....” However, trying Iraqis in Iraqi courtrooms may be beneficial for justice, al-Kubaysi contends, telling his interlocutor, “For your information, trying criminals in Iraq will be severer and tougher than trying them in the United States, because the Iraqis know the details of crimes, one by one. For your information, no Iraqi will testify against another Iraqi in a US court. But if there is an Iraqi court, terrible crimes will be revealed.”
Elsewhere in the interview, Dr. al-Kubaysi refers to his agreement to work with the Americans as a temporary necessity, saying, “God's prophet has set a good example for you when he reached an understanding with the Quraysh [tribe] in al-Hudaybiyah peace treaty. He made concessions that seemed unacceptable at the time. However, afterward, it turned out that those concessions represent an excellent lesson in political maneuvering.” It should be noted that the ten-year Hudaybiyah treaty with the Quraysh was abrogated by Mohammed within two years, once he felt he was strong enough to defeat the Quraysh and conquer their entire city, Mecca.
The Iraqi explains that he gathered many Iraqi opposition groups to “determine the method of dealing with the United States, after its occupation of our country became a fait accompli. As a result of this discussion, we found that the occupier has duties and obligations to fulfill and that without this occupier's fulfillment of its duties, Iraq will not exist in order for us to regain it.... We said that this occupier must not leave [Iraq] before it does this and fulfill what is required of it.” As for the possibility of establishing an Islamic state in place of American occupation, Dr. al-Kubaysi says, “It would be mean to lie, cheat, and claim that you want to set up an Islamic state, when you could not establish such a state throughout 15 centuries, while you were at the height of your power and had an army.”
Dr. al-Kubaysi tells the a-Sharq al-Awsat interviewer that he doesn’t fear the American reaction to his presence in the country, despite his previous opposition to American intervention. The interviewer asked, “But weren't you afraid that the Americans would do to you as the former regime did? For example, weren't you afraid of being arrested, especially since your stands during the war and in the Friday sermon were against the Americans?”
Al-Kubaysi replied, “Nobody, not even Israel, is like the former regime. Israel has known and familiar methods, since they [Israeli forces] arrest and kill people. But nobody knows, or is familiar with, the methods of the former regime. The Americans are too smart to kill or arrest someone, whom all the Iraqis know and support. They are smarter and more wicked than that.”
He later provides a folk saying that characterized life under Saddam Hussein: “[S]ome people say: If you see two Egyptians whispering to each other, then they are talking about a woman; and if you see two Syrians whispering to each other, then they are discussing a business deal. But if you see two Iraqis whispering to each other, then they are insulting the government. Political opposition runs in the blood of Iraqis.”
Historically, al-Kubaysi explains, “Iraq was a victim. The communists came and robbed it, and the Ba'thists came and spent its revenues on weapons, palaces, and [private] farms. We have not benefitted a single dirham from oil. No matter how much the Americans steal now, we will get more [money] than that we used to get during the rule of Saddam Hussein and his predecessors.”