Abu Mazen, Arafat's choice for Prime Minister of the Palestinian Authority, recently expressed public support for terrorism against Jewish citizens living in Judea, Samaria and Gaza. In an interview earlier this month with the London-based Arabic paper A-Sharq al-Aussat, Abu Mazen was clear in his justification of the use of weapons against the Jews of Yesha. "It is our right to resist," Abu Mazen said. "The intifada must continue, and it is the right of the Palestinian people to resist and use all possible means in order to defend its presence and existence. I add and say that if the Israelis come to your land in order to erect a settlement then it is your right to defend what is yours [using] all means and arms as long as they are coming to your home..." He made it clear that the only "restriction" on the fighting he would accept "applies only to suicide operations and going out to attack in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem..."
Dr. Aaron Lerner of IMRA pressed Prime Minister Sharon's spokesman Raanan Gissin on the matter of Sharon's lack of response to Abu Mazen's call to murder. Some excerpts from the interview:
IMRA: When [Sharon] welcomed the nomination of Abu Mazen as prime minister...
Gissin: ...I don't see any place that he congratulated him. What was referred to by the senior sources here was basically that the test will be the results - the authority that will be bestowed upon him [Abu Mazen] to stop terrorism...
IMRA: That is to say that the Government embraces the view of Shimon Peres...
Gissin: You are putting words in my mouth... I am going to tell you what I want to say. There was no blessing. He [Sharon] said very simply that we are looking for someone who will be a partner. And we define very clearly who is a partner. What that means. Someone who has renounced terrorism, fights against terrorism, implements the security reforms. Reforms the educational system, the media, the finance system. All those things were made very clear...
IMRA: Again, Abu Mazen said last week in a published interview that struggle continues using all means against the settlers. Are you saying that this doesn't matter?
Gissin: No. I'm not saying that it doesn't matter. What matters is what is being done actually on the ground... Because what we learned was not to pay attention to what they say. You yourself were saying all the time "don't pay attention to what they say."
IMRA: No. The opposite. Excuse me. The whole story of Oslo, if you will recall the history, was that Benny Begin was ridiculed because he kept saying "this is what they are saying and what they say is what they mean." That was the whole problem.
Gissin: Every person we signed peace agreements with, according to your assessment, we shouldn't have signed with. We shouldn't have signed with King Hussein, or Anwar Saddat, with all these leaders, because at one time or another they harbored views against Israel or collaborated with the Nazis. So come on.
IMRA: Raanan. I am not talking about something that happened 2,000 years ago. We are talking about something that happened last week. We are talking about an interview last week.
Gissin: We didn't congratulate him. We said that we were going to observe and see whether this one is a puppet on a string or whether he has his own independent policies and is going to initiate and carry out reforms which are the prime prerequisite for any resumption of political negotiations. And
that's all that was said.
IMRA: So if he talks the talk about killing settlers that's OK as long as he doesn't really kill them.
Gissin: OK, OK. So what do you want?
IMRA: Well, I would have expected... I haven't heard a word from your office about this issue. Here is
Abu Mazen coming out with a statement last week about using all means against settlers, and I don't hear a word from the Prime Minister's Office. It's that simple.
Gissin: There was a word and it was mentioned.
IMRA: Where?
Gissin: There was no official statement anywhere but it was said by sources in the Prime Minister's Office. Only we look at any kind of appointment with a great deal of suspicion. We say that the test will be the results. What they do. How they are going to act. Not what he said. Because if you take
that then of course everything is a nonstarter. What do you want? You want Yasser Arafat?
IMRA: Excuse me. As far as I recall, the whole story of Anwar Saddat was that when he got off the plane in Israel he didn't say "kill settlers" or anybody else. He said something altogether different.
Gissin: Yes. Because he is not there yet. OK, let's see what happens when he is there. OK?
IMRA: Got you. Fair enough.
Gissin: And that doesn't in any way change the basic strategy of counter-terrorist policies we have. We continue unabated. You can see what happened the day before he was appointed. Did that in any way deter us? We are doing what we have to do. We continue on all fronts. There is a war going on. But at the same time, if there is a change that is taking place in the Palestinian Authority and this change weakens Yasser Arafat, then to that extent this should be encouraged. Whether this leads further on to real action - then definitely that's a step in the right direction. That doesn't mean that we embrace him or support him...
The IDF Spokesman's Office, at the time of the interview with Abu Mazen, made its position clear on the matter. It stated, "Abu Mazen's comments clearly express the Palestinian Authority's position on the subject of a cease-fire with Israel. Abu Mazen, as well as the Palestinian Interior Minister, Hani Elhassan, justify the continuation of the armed struggle against Israeli civilians in [Yesha]. His comments also imply that Israeli residents of these regions are a 'legitimate target' for the 'resistance.'"
The reaction of former Mossad head and new MK Danny Yatom (Labor) was somewhat less committal. Asked to comment this morning on Israel Radio, he said only that he doubted the accuracy of the report. Ex-Foreign Minister Shimon Peres later appeared on the same station, and repeated the new mantra that Abu Mazen is a moderate. When asked about Abu Mazen's call to murder Jewish settlers, Peres replied, "It doesn't matter what they say" - reminiscent of similar statements he said long ago about Arafat.
Dr. Aaron Lerner of IMRA pressed Prime Minister Sharon's spokesman Raanan Gissin on the matter of Sharon's lack of response to Abu Mazen's call to murder. Some excerpts from the interview:
IMRA: When [Sharon] welcomed the nomination of Abu Mazen as prime minister...
Gissin: ...I don't see any place that he congratulated him. What was referred to by the senior sources here was basically that the test will be the results - the authority that will be bestowed upon him [Abu Mazen] to stop terrorism...
IMRA: That is to say that the Government embraces the view of Shimon Peres...
Gissin: You are putting words in my mouth... I am going to tell you what I want to say. There was no blessing. He [Sharon] said very simply that we are looking for someone who will be a partner. And we define very clearly who is a partner. What that means. Someone who has renounced terrorism, fights against terrorism, implements the security reforms. Reforms the educational system, the media, the finance system. All those things were made very clear...
IMRA: Again, Abu Mazen said last week in a published interview that struggle continues using all means against the settlers. Are you saying that this doesn't matter?
Gissin: No. I'm not saying that it doesn't matter. What matters is what is being done actually on the ground... Because what we learned was not to pay attention to what they say. You yourself were saying all the time "don't pay attention to what they say."
IMRA: No. The opposite. Excuse me. The whole story of Oslo, if you will recall the history, was that Benny Begin was ridiculed because he kept saying "this is what they are saying and what they say is what they mean." That was the whole problem.
Gissin: Every person we signed peace agreements with, according to your assessment, we shouldn't have signed with. We shouldn't have signed with King Hussein, or Anwar Saddat, with all these leaders, because at one time or another they harbored views against Israel or collaborated with the Nazis. So come on.
IMRA: Raanan. I am not talking about something that happened 2,000 years ago. We are talking about something that happened last week. We are talking about an interview last week.
Gissin: We didn't congratulate him. We said that we were going to observe and see whether this one is a puppet on a string or whether he has his own independent policies and is going to initiate and carry out reforms which are the prime prerequisite for any resumption of political negotiations. And
that's all that was said.
IMRA: So if he talks the talk about killing settlers that's OK as long as he doesn't really kill them.
Gissin: OK, OK. So what do you want?
IMRA: Well, I would have expected... I haven't heard a word from your office about this issue. Here is
Abu Mazen coming out with a statement last week about using all means against settlers, and I don't hear a word from the Prime Minister's Office. It's that simple.
Gissin: There was a word and it was mentioned.
IMRA: Where?
Gissin: There was no official statement anywhere but it was said by sources in the Prime Minister's Office. Only we look at any kind of appointment with a great deal of suspicion. We say that the test will be the results. What they do. How they are going to act. Not what he said. Because if you take
that then of course everything is a nonstarter. What do you want? You want Yasser Arafat?
IMRA: Excuse me. As far as I recall, the whole story of Anwar Saddat was that when he got off the plane in Israel he didn't say "kill settlers" or anybody else. He said something altogether different.
Gissin: Yes. Because he is not there yet. OK, let's see what happens when he is there. OK?
IMRA: Got you. Fair enough.
Gissin: And that doesn't in any way change the basic strategy of counter-terrorist policies we have. We continue unabated. You can see what happened the day before he was appointed. Did that in any way deter us? We are doing what we have to do. We continue on all fronts. There is a war going on. But at the same time, if there is a change that is taking place in the Palestinian Authority and this change weakens Yasser Arafat, then to that extent this should be encouraged. Whether this leads further on to real action - then definitely that's a step in the right direction. That doesn't mean that we embrace him or support him...
The IDF Spokesman's Office, at the time of the interview with Abu Mazen, made its position clear on the matter. It stated, "Abu Mazen's comments clearly express the Palestinian Authority's position on the subject of a cease-fire with Israel. Abu Mazen, as well as the Palestinian Interior Minister, Hani Elhassan, justify the continuation of the armed struggle against Israeli civilians in [Yesha]. His comments also imply that Israeli residents of these regions are a 'legitimate target' for the 'resistance.'"
The reaction of former Mossad head and new MK Danny Yatom (Labor) was somewhat less committal. Asked to comment this morning on Israel Radio, he said only that he doubted the accuracy of the report. Ex-Foreign Minister Shimon Peres later appeared on the same station, and repeated the new mantra that Abu Mazen is a moderate. When asked about Abu Mazen's call to murder Jewish settlers, Peres replied, "It doesn't matter what they say" - reminiscent of similar statements he said long ago about Arafat.