CNN on Tuesday published excerpts of a series of audio interviews that Washington Post journalist Bob Woodward conducted with then-US President Donald Trump and which will be published on October 25 as part of an audio book titled “The Trump Tapes,” which contains 20 interviews Woodward conducted with Trump from 2016 through 2020.
The interviews offer insights into the former President’s worldview and are the most extensive recordings of Trump speaking about his presidency, including explaining his rationale for meeting North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, his relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin, and Trump’s detailed views of the US nuclear arsenal.
The audio also shows how Trump decided to share with Woodward the letters Kim wrote to him, the letters that helped spark the DOJ investigation into classified documents Trump took to Mar-a-Lago.
“And don’t say I gave them to you, okay?” Trump told Woodward.
Most of the interviews were conducted for Woodward’s second Trump book, “Rage,” but the audio clips of the interviews are a reminder of how Trump acted as President and provide a candid look into Trump’s thinking and motivations as he gears up for another potential run for the White House in 2024.
On Kim, Woodward asked Trump whether his bellicose rhetoric toward the North Korean leader had been intended to drive Kim to the negotiating table.
“No. No. It was designed for whatever reason, it was designed. Who knows? Instinctively. Let’s talk instinct, okay?” Trump said. “Because it’s really about you don’t know what’s going to happen. But it was very rough rhetoric. The roughest.”
In the December 2019 interview, Woodward questioned Trump about North Korea’s nuclear program, prompting the President to boast about US nuclear weapons capabilities while seemingly revealing a new – and likely highly classified – weapons system, which was one of the more eye-raising episodes from “Rage.”
Woodward says that he never could establish what Trump was referring to, though he notes that Trump’s comment reaffirmed the “casual, dangerous way” the former President treated classified information.
“I have built a weapons system that nobody’s ever had in this country before,” Trump told Woodward. “We have stuff that you haven’t even seen or heard about. We have stuff that Putin and Xi have never heard about before.”
Throughout the interviews, Trump references his relationship with Putin, blaming the FBI’s investigation into Russia’s election interference for ruining his chances to improve the relationship between the two countries.
“I like Putin. Our relationship should be a very good one. I campaigned on getting along with Russia, China and everyone else,” Trump said in a January 2020 interview. “Getting along with Russia is a good thing, not a bad thing, all right? Especially because they have 1,332 nuclear f***ing warheads.”
Trump also told Woodward that he had better relationships with leaders “the tougher and meaner they are.”
“I get along very well with Erdogan, even though you’re not supposed to because everyone says what a horrible guy. But you know for me it works out good,” Trump said in a January 2020 interview.
“It’s funny, the relationships I have, the tougher and meaner they are, the better I get along with them. You know?” he continued. “Explain that to me someday, okay. But maybe it’s not a bad thing. The easy ones are the ones I maybe don’t like as much or don’t get along with as much.”