As appearing on the AskMoses.com website.


Mrs. Shaffer: Hello, Janet, how can I help you? :)


Janet: Could you tell me please why there are so many laws about modesty for Jewish women?


Mrs. Shaffer: I'd be happy to ...:) First of all, realize that 'modesty' is not really what the laws are about. They're

I don't understand why the body has to be hidden. Could you talk about the concept? And then I want to know about the laws.

the laws of 'tzniut'...unfortunately there's no really good translation for that word. What it means, literally, is 'hidden' or 'discreet'.


Janet: Hidden? Hidden from what?


Mrs. Shaffer: And what's wrong with a woman's body that it has to be hidden?


Janet: I don't understand why the body has to be hidden. Could you talk about the concept? And then I want to know about the laws.


Mrs. Shaffer: 'Hidden' means that which is internal. It means we have an internal self...that self's core is the Neshama, the Jewish soul. Our body is the housing for our soul...that is why we treat it with respect and dignity. Covering, recognizing that there is that which is 'hidden' or 'internal' projects the absolute value of what's behind, or inside of, the covering.


A Sefer Torah, for example, is the most precious object in Jewish life...yet it's never displayed in the middle of the synagogue, uncovered, unrolled... It's always covered, with a beautiful covering to be sure...and then placed inside an ark...and then that's covered as well....all these 'coverings' denote respect ...awe and respect for the holiness of this object.


Janet: ok. I remember u said something about the reason for modesty is because of dignity. Why does covering your elbows or knees make you dignified?


Mrs. Shaffer: Ok...dignity...:) Human beings are infused, naturally, with a sense of self. This sense of self is, in an emotionally healthy person, in someone who's developed a wholesome sense of self...this sense of self is also connected to a sense of dignity...self-dignity. Historically, when someone wanted to humiliate another human being...in slave/master situations,...prisons...most recently, most horrifically when the Nazis were rounding up Jews to exterminate them....the first thing they did in the process of killing them, was to strip them of self dignity; they undressed the Jews; they made the Jews stand around in public, naked. And this nakedness very much stripped them, as well, of the ability to function...to think about possible alternatives (not that there were any at all...but my point is the sense of helplessness that was so strongly reinforced by the nakedness... they were now bodies, mannequins... not people.)


Because the dignity of selfhood is projected to others by our clothes...we clothe the external self in a way that projects,...or at least ought to project...the inner self. At times, we dress with the intent to impress, but we always dress with intent to express. We have an image of self in mind, and that is how we want others to see us. So we dress accordingly. To dress elegant and modest is to express that I am a beautiful person from without, but I have much more beauty within. My appearance is attractive, but my personality is striking. When the body is emphasized it takes away attention from the "person" in the body. Clothing that doesn’t flaunt the body says "you might notice my looks, but please look at my character".


So the beginning of the deterioration of an inner self-dignity is the stripping of the person of any external statement of inner person... In order to have a sense of self that is dignified, we have to clothe our body, we have to clothe the external in a fashion that allows the expression of the internal.


OK, let me give you another "for instance".... Imagine you're just coming out of the shower...and you're still in your robe... and you haven't yet made your appointments for the day. What you've got on your mind is a date with some very handsome dude, a job interview at a law firm, meeting your brother's fiancé and prospective in-laws...and a dinner/opera event with the president of UJA. Sound good? :)


Janet: Awesome:-) u got a really good imagination :-)


Mrs. Shaffer: Ok...so here's the scenario...you don't know which is going to happen when (assume for the sake of this exercise, that dinner/opera can take place at 11 in the morning or at 8 in the evening...ok...we're not talking about timing here...all of this could happen at any time during the next 12 hours).


So...you get a call...telling you that you're on...you have to get into the cab that's coming to get you right now, and the driver'll take you to your appointment, so get dressed fast. What's your first question going to be? It's got to be, where am I going, which appointment of all of the above, right?

The clothes you wear are very much a statement to everyone around you.



Janet: Yeah, ok, so what's your point?


Mrs. Shaffer: Why don't you just get dressed? Or, for that matter, go in your robe? Why do you have to know which appointment? Obviously you have to know, because for each one you'll have to dress differently. Clearly, you're not going to dress for a serious job interview the same way you're going to dress for a date all of whose buttons you want to press (within the boundaries of propriety, of course). You don't want the lawyers of this very prestigious high-power firm to see you as a woman...you want them to see you as a lawyer.


Our body is the housing for our soul...that is why we treat it with respect and dignity. So you'll dress to be taken seriously as a lawyer...never mind that you're an attractive woman....you get my drift? :)


Janet: Yes, but why are you saying that it’s ok to dress like a woman on a date? That should be when I’m supposed to want to be more serious isn't it?


Mrs. Shaffer: Good point...you want your date to take you seriously...but you're not interviewing for a job...you're developing a relationship with a man, and so, within the bounds of propriety, or tzniut, you will dress in such a way as to let him know that you're very much a woman, albeit a serious woman.


So, you see, the clothes you wear are very much a statement to everyone around you. You’re telling people how you want them to think of you and what you want from them.


Janet: So what am I saying when I dress modestly?


Mrs. Shaffer: Modest clothes, dressing in the way the Torah prescribes, that’s a way of dressing to express the neshama—the G-dly soul inside you.


Janet: So when a woman shows her body, she’s showing her body. And when she covers it, she’s showing her neshama.


Mrs. Shaffer: Because she’s saying, look deeper.


Janet: Just like the Sefer Torah you mentioned before. I’m dumbstruck actually. This is fascinating. Thank u very very much. But how come the Torah laws are so strict?


Mrs. Shaffer: They're not :)...they outline the basic parameters of the way in which we, women, should maintain a sense of self. The clothes for the essential self—the neshama. After all...in our society we're in real danger of

She’s saying, look deeper.

reducing each other, men and women, to merely physical entities...just look at the billboards and commercials - whatever the product advertised...what the media is selling is a body, usually a female body. The Torah laws protect us from thinking that way...from viewing each other as bodies rather than humans with a soul...and mind, and heart, and thoughts and ideas and desires and longings and dreams...etc...etc...


Janet: This is wonderful. I’m very grateful for this site. Thank u very much for your time and your patience. I have to go now but I’ll come back for sure, you can bet!!! Bye for now.


Mrs. Shaffer: :) Bye.


All names, places, and identifying information have been changed or deleted in order to protect the privacy of the questioners. In order to preserve authenticity, the chat sessions have been posted with a minimum of editing. Please excuse typographical errors, missing punctuation, and/or grammatical mistakes which naturally occur in the course of informal chat sessions.
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Mrs. Bronya Shaffer, noted lecturer on Jewish women's issues, brings to her listeners a refreshingly modern view grounded firmly in Torah values. Although Orthodox - Chassidic, in fact - Mrs. Shaffer's broad scope of knowledge enables her to present a Torah perspective on modern life in a uniquely sensitive and sensible fashion.