United States Secretary of State Antony Blinken held an on-stage conversation with New York Times journalist Thomas Friedman on Wednesday as part of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, during which they discussed the war between Israel and Hamas among other issues.
At the start of the conversation, Friedman noted that diplomacy is progressing between Israel and the Arab states, despite the war. To this Secretary Binken replied: "You now have something you didn’t have before, and that is Arab countries and Muslim countries even beyond the region that are prepared to have a relationship with Israel in terms of its integration, its normalization, its security, that they were never prepared to have before, and to do things, to give the necessary assurance, to make the necessary commitments and guarantees, so that Israel is not only integrated but it can feel secure."
With this he added: "But you also have an absolute conviction by those countries, one that we share, that this has to include a pathway to a Palestinian state, because you’re not going to get the genuine integration you need, you’re not going to get the genuine security you need, absent that. And of course, to that end as well, a stronger, reformed Palestinian Authority that can more effectively deliver for its own people has to be part of the equation."
When asked if Israel's Prime Minister is capable of such a move, Blinken replied: "These are decisions for Israelis to make. This is a profound decision for the country as a whole to make: What direction does it want to take? Can it seize the opportunity that we believe is there? And they’ll have to make those decisions.
"This is an inflection point. President Biden talks about this often. It’s an inflection point geostrategically. I think it’s also an inflection point in the Middle East. And when you get to an inflection point, you have to make hard decisions."
Friedman then asked Blinken if there is Palestinian leadership for a reformed PA, to this he says: "So again, we don’t purport to make these decisions for others. There have to be ways, means, and vehicles for Palestinians to make these decisions. But I think what we’re talking about is two things. You’re talking about a governance, a government, and a structure of governance that maximizes the ability of the authority to actually deliver what the Palestinian people want and need. But it also has to be able to operate in what you might call a permissive environment – in other words, with the support of, with the help of Israel, not with its active opposition – because even the most effective authority is going to have a lot of trouble if it’s got the active opposition of any Israeli government.
"But I think it’s also clear from the conversations that are going on now that the Palestinians are looking very hard at how they can come up with a more effective governance that can actually deliver what the people want. Some of what needs to be delivered is the basic – the basic function of government, services, no corruption, and transparency in the way government is pursued. There are also things that people want that they can’t on their own deliver absent a partnership with Israel, so that has to be part of the equation as well."
Regarding a timeframe for such a plan playing out the Secretary says: "It’s not that any of this happens overnight. It’s not like it’s flipping a light switch. But seeing if we can move to this – start to move to this different vision, to this different equation, to this different integration, I think that has to begin as quickly as possible.
"And as I said before, the profound difference now I think is in the mindset of leaders throughout the Arab world and in Muslim countries, and in a way it’s a reversal, it’s a flip, as you know so well better than anyone. When in previous times we came close to resolving the Palestinian question, getting a Palestinian state, I think the view then – Camp David, other places – was that Arab leaders, Palestinian leaders, had not done enough to prepare their own people for this profound change. I think a challenge now, a question now: Is Israeli society prepared to engage on these questions? Is it prepared to have that mindset? That’s challenging. And it’s, of course, doubly challenging when you’re focused intensely on Gaza and all of the security questions that are the day-in/day-out life for Israelis and Palestinians alike."
Friedman then asked the Secretary of State if Jewish lives matter more than Palestinian and Muslim lives, Muslim and Palestinian Christian lives, given the "incredible asymmetry in casualties." To this the Blinken retorted: "No, period. For me, I think for so many of us, what we’re seeing every single day in Gaza is gut-wrenching. And the suffering we’re seeing among innocent men, women, and children breaks my heart. The question is: What is to be done? We’ve made judgments about how we thought we could be most effective in trying to shape this in ways to get more humanitarian assistance to people, to get better protections, and to minimize civilian casualties."
He continued: "And at every step along the way, not only have we impressed upon Israel its responsibilities to do that, we’ve seen some progress in areas where absent our engagement I don’t believe it would have happened. So there are a lot of – there are dogs that didn’t bark. But that in no way, shape – way, shape, or form takes away from the tragedy that we’ve seen and continue to see. It’s why we’re at it relentlessly every single day. And all I can tell you, Tom, is just on a purely human level it’s devastating, but it reinforces the conviction and the commitment to do two things: to do everything we can in this moment using our best judgment – and of course, we could be wrong about the judgments we’re making – but to try to make a difference in the day-in/day-out."
Despite this Blinken emphasized: "But it also reinforces my conviction that there has to be – and there is – another way that answers Israel’s most profound concerns and questions. Israelis have to live with security. They can’t have a repeat of October 7th. No country would accept a repeat of October 7th.
"And I think not by way of justification but just by way of explanation, it’s hard to overstate the psychological impact on the country as a whole of what happened on that day. And there are large swaths of the world – going back to one of the first things you said – where information technology and information environments have been used and abused in such a way that large numbers of people don’t believe October 7th actually happened. They don’t believe that Hamas slaughtered men, women, and children, that it executed parents in front of their kids, that it executed kids in front of their parents, that it burned families alive. They don’t believe it. And so of course, especially with that, everything that followed is even worse," he explained.
"Here’s what it comes down to, in my judgment. I think the biggest poison that we face around the world internally in our societies and externally in our relations with others is dehumanization – the inability to see the humanity in the other. And that applies in every direction. And when that happens, you get so hardened that you’re willing to do and accept things that you wouldn’t if the humanity of the other was front and center in your conscience.
So one of our challenges is to fight that dehumanization, to find ways to defuse it, to take that poison out. And that’s also a function of leadership. We need leaders around the world who see that, understand that, and are prepared to act on that," the Secretary of State concluded."