Giulio Meotti
Giulio MeottiCourtesy
She inspired Oriana Fallaci and Michel Houellebecq mentioned her in his novels. As Le Monde recounts, Bat Ye’Or is the historian who imposed the theme of "dhimmitude", the fate of Jewish and Christian minorities in the Islamic world. Bernard Heyberger, one of the most famous experts on Eastern Christians, Director of the École des Hautes Études en Sciences Sociales in Paris, acknowledges in Le Monde that Bat Ye’or was "the first to draw attention to the phenomenon of dhimmis."

Bat Ye'or
Bat Ye'orYoni Kempinski

Bat Ye'Or expressed "realist" positions on the war in Ukraine. I talked to her about the war, Europe, Islam and Israel..

Bat Ye'Or, you wrote that only one winner will emerge from this war: the Islamic Ummah. Because?

When the Berlin Wall fell, we hoped in Europe for a peaceful relationship and mutual respect with Russia, but very negative observations from the Muslim world came. It was said that Europe needed to find an enemy and that reconciliation with Russia would make Islam an enemy and that immigration from the Mediterranean, a euphemism used so as not to mention Muslim immigration, would be replaced by that of Eastern Europe, the Poles, the Hungarians, the Germans ...

The Ummah benefited from the Cold War against Communism in excellent areas: immigration to the West, weapons and oil, development with the help of the United States of the international network of madrassas and active support of radical Muslim movements. The oil and energy sector in particular has had a strong impact on the internal and international policies of Western countries.

So it is understood that a relationship with Russia and peace in Europe would not have been well received by countries that have always gained from wars between Christians. I fear that the wall of hatred between Western Europe and Russia is already being rebuilt and who knows for how many years. Suddenly, the European populations are thrown into a russophobic hysteria that threatens to provoke a nuclear war in Europe. They find that the cause of these dangers is a fratricidal war in Ukraine led by the Ukrainian army since 2014 and which has already claimed 13,000 lives in the eastern region of Russian-speaking Ukraine. A war in which the United States and the European Union participate indirectly through the supply of weapons and the military training of the armies of the Zelenskyy government.

We cry for the war, but when the EU and the US sent military equipment to Ukraine, did they think Putin would stand by and watch them? Putin felt surrounded and invaded Ukraine. Biden, NATO and the European Union reacted by declaring planetary economic war on Russia with an ultimatum, asking European countries to take anti-Russian measures, penalizing their economy already weakened by two years of pandemic.

Our leaders and thought controllers teach us that this war must last as long as possible so that the whole earth detests Putin and gets rid of him. I believe the opposite will happen. The European Union is not very popular among the European populations and this sentiment grows as it drags us towards a third world war which will be nuclear, that is, towards the destruction of our continent and its people.

Many tears are shed for the misfortunes of the Ukrainians but they look like crocodile tears because we are not doing anything to build peace but we are multiplying aggressive statements and initiatives that increase their problems. And the continuous deliveries of arms only encourage the continuation of the war, the cause of so much misfortune.

Joe Biden absolutely wants a victory over Putin for internal political reasons. For him this will be the beginning of the disintegration of Russia. Do we really want to destroy Russia at the cost of a nuclear war? And what will the result be? We are told that we must punish Putin because he is a terrible dictator. But now we go to look for energy from Muslim countries, the Emirates, Iran, Azerbaijan, Qatar ... To ruin Russia, Europe must also be ruined, while we give billions to countries that do not have democracy, to say the least, nor a perfect past. These are also the countries of jihad and we put ourselves under their dependence again.

Now we have to ask ourselves: what are our governments doing? In the name of what do they act? Of injustice? Of freedom? Human rights? But where are these principles recognized? In Africa, where do we have a very good relationship with dictators? In Asia, where the European Union is the object of laughter? In Iran? In South America? In Europe, where is he killed on the street and at school for 'blasphemy'? Aren't these words just pretexts for intervening in countries that you want to destroy? What does respect for human rights mean? They are not respected in Europe either.

We have lost the primordial right of man which is security. When we go to pray in a church or synagogue or go to the street, there are civilians who are killed. Today it cannot be said that in Europe the fundamental right of the human being is respected.

We have lost the right to freedom of expression. Certain words or opinions or attitudes can cause death. We must respect the law of 'blasphemy' which is not European, but is imposed on us by another civilization. We have lost the right to impress political and religious opinions that can be argued that our law gives us. I make a difference between argued criticism and defamation which must be sanctioned. When we talk about human rights, we must specify that there are two totally opposite declarations: the Déclaration universelle des droits de l'homme (1948) and the Déclaration des Droits de l'homme en Islam (1990). Since the 1930s, Europe has chosen its side and while preparing the demonization of the enemy in the east since the 2000s, it has been building its future in the south, as we now learn: the Council of Europe offers to 'teach the history of Islam ', to strengthen the political participation of Muslim communities, to meet their religious needs …

In this cauldron fueled by incapable politicians, we see that the peoples of Europe count for nothing, they will be thrown away to crush each other with nuclear weapons. Who decided on the participation of the European Union and NATO in the war in Ukraine since 2014? We see that this will be a very long war. Do Europeans want it? Have the parliaments of the countries of the European Union discussed with the peoples who represent the opportunity for such a policy, especially after a two-year pandemic that has put them to the test? Have the newspapers and televisions enlightened mere mortals about the consequences of such an adventure? Shouldn't the people be informed because in a democracy they decide? And all EU countries are democracies, right?

You also wrote that the West is suffering the blows of the American “Woke" ...

I am not very familiar with this "Woke", but it seems to me that it is Edward Said, a member of the PLO and a friend of Arafat, who first united this movement with the anti-Western jihad movement. He wanted to make Wokism the equivalent of European anti-Semitism. Said is the promoter of the intellectual destruction of European culture, of its annihilation with the affirmation that it does not rest on any foundation but that it is only a construction based on anti-Arab, anti-Muslim, anti-black racist prejudices and a political will to dominate and colonize the world. Arab-Muslim.

His theory rejects all foundations, criteria and disciplines of science. This reasoning implies that everything is valid because nothing is true. This critique, however, only targets Judeo-Christian culture and European civilization, but not Chinese culture or Islamic culture. The demonization of Western culture and civilization by Edward Said and exploited by Jihad, becomes an ideological war against 'Evil' that encompasses all Western, ie Judeo-Christian, culture, science and politics.

For thirteen centuries, jihadist ideology has aspired to Islamize Europe. Already in the 9th century, the Arab armies wanted to take Rome, the symbol of the Christian strength of the West. Jihad has remained a force over the centuries. Now Erdogan has shown the same will to conquer. Erdogan, who regularly celebrates Manzikert's victory in 1071, encourages NATO to bomb Russia. Welcomed with open arms by all American anti-Semites, Said's theories and wokism quickly spread in the Democratic Party under Obama, tyrannizing universities. Today they are destabilizing the West

Will Europe one day have to recover relations with Russia? But it won't be easy, after Putin's war ...

It would be in the interest of Europe. This war is crazy. All wars cause death, destruction and terrible suffering to civilian populations as we see today in Ukraine and yesterday in Donbass and Armenia. Here we see a situation that has gone out of control.

Why did America and Europe spark an insurrectionary war and a fratricidal war in Ukraine? The policy of the European Union wants to extend its control and dominion over other countries. It has no armies, so it creates insurrections like in Arab countries with the 'Arab Springs' and against Orban in Hungary, a democratically elected president. In this war we see that Biden wants to choose who will rule Russia.

This is another form of madness. Why do we Europeans and Americans have to choose who is going to govern Turkey? Or China? Are we the ones who decide who rules a country because we don't like those leaders? The idea that Putin must be eliminated because Biden doesn't like him and Europe doesn't like him is criminal. We are in a new phase of the EU's hegemonic dictatorial policy that leads us to wreak havoc on the planet.

Let's see what happened in the Arab countries where we went to change those regimes. What do we do with Iran? Why do we leave the mullahs in power? Are they so democratic to women, their peoples and non-Muslims? What is to be said of the jihadist terrorism affecting Europe and Israel? And the threats from the mullahs who always say they want to commit genocide and end the state of Israel? Aren't these calls for genocide? Isn't jihadist terrorism that attacks civilians a crime against humanity? Why don't Biden and the European Union say anything?

And how can the double standard be explained?

There are several causes. Economic and geopolitical power, because 56 Islamic countries are in control of a part of the planet and represent an enormous well-organized force in the Organization of Islamic Cooperation. How can such an organization be attacked? Instead, Russia is attacked.

And then the historical significance of anti-Semitism allied to Nazi-Islam since the 1930s.

There is also dhimmitude, and we have chosen to pursue this policy: America against communism, the EU against Israel. We didn't want to see what was happening. There was no mention of Jihad. It was a taboo word. Until the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq forced the EU states to talk about it. Even today there is no mention of dhimmitude. A condition not accepted by universities, by the public, by governments. When you do not see a situation that has existed for 13 centuries in theology, politics, law, society and you do not want to see it, then this condition does not exist. What has no name does not exist. If you don't give oxygen a name, we won't know that oxygen exists.

But Putin blames Nazism ...

Nazism never dies. The millions of Europeans who, from France to Russia and Norway to Africa, had fanatically joined Nazism as early as the 1920s and then collaborated with the Nazi forces that occupied their country, did not disappear or suddenly change in 1945. After that some purges, most remained in their ministerial, administrative and influence positions. The examples are innumerable, in France with Mitterrand, Couve de Murville, René Bousquet… or in Germany with Chancellor Kurt Georg Kiesinger (CDU), but also throughout Europe.

I am referring to specialized works on this subject, including Christophe Bourseiller's latest on France. In international organizations Kurt Waldheim, a former Nazi officer, was secretary general of the United Nations from 1972 to 1981. One can speak of an international of ex-Nazis who directed national and international European politics. This explains the prevalence of various aspects of Nazism during the second half of the twentieth century and to this day in European Union politics, the institutional and ideological foundations of which were created by Walter Hallstein, first president of the European Commission from 1958 to 1967, a Nazi by choice and from the start.

The extent of the participation of Muslims from Europe (Balkans, Crimea, Ukraine, Caucasus), from North Africa and especially the Middle East, in territorial expansion and the Nazi genocide, their enlistment and indoctrination in the troops of the Wehrmacht and the SS during the world war is a taboo subject. I refer here to the excellent books by Lukasz Hirszowicz, Jeffrey Herf, Matthias Kunzel and David Motadel, among others.

Euronazism quietly re-establishes its 1933-45 alliances with the Nazi-Islamism of united Arab leaders in a war of extermination against the people of Israel to which European countries, with the exception of Czechoslovakia, had refused in 1947 to sell weapons to defend themselves. This collaboration continued openly with al-Husseini's relative Arafat's acknowledgment of the EEC's official support for the PLO in 1973, the popularity and enthusiasm for the Palestinian jihad in Europe. The politics of Nazi extermination of the Jewish people is expressed today in the European policy aimed at creating in Judea and Samaria a false Palestinian state, Jüdenrein with Jerusalem as its capital. It is this genocidal policy that the European Union calls the 'peace process'.

I will not go back on these data which I have analyzed in my numerous books and articles. The politics of the European Union is a Shoah of memory (you Giulio have already said and written this) and of the rights of the people of Israel. We are destroying the foundations of the Judeo-Christian civilization based on biblical values. When we rewrite the Bible by deleting the word Israel to replace it with Palestine, and when biblical objects in European museums are designated Palestinian by an anachronism of thousands of years, we are Islamized.

They actually say: How can a true Christian talk about the Temple Mount without being a Muslim? But do you think Jesus went to a mosque? It is this campaign to erase and suppress the history of the people of Israel, the contestation of its legitimacy and its right to self-defense, which I call 'the Nazi meaning of European politics'. For me, the Nazi way of liquidating the State of Israel is Christian suicide. Destroying Israel means destroying the living matrix of Christianity deriving from the Jewish notion of Christ (Messiah) the redeemer, a notion that does not exist in Islam.

This is why I argue that the EU which adopted this extermination policy is already Islamized. And it is precisely because it is Islamized that today it cannot defend itself from the allies it has joined since the 1930s through Nazism, which was the foundation of its alliance with the Muslim peoples. Christianity is inextricably linked to Judaism by the Bible and by the founding notion of Christianity, that of Christ the Redeemer (Messiah). The hatred of the Jewish origins of Christianity had led the Nazis to regret that Europe was Christian and not Muslim. This Nazi meaning is expressed today in the confrontation of Christianity with its destruction by Islam.

Will it advance on the path traced by Hitler, Himmler, Hallstein, and which the member countries of the EEC have consciously set themselves? Will he exorcise his hatred for the people he came from and whom he so often tried to exterminate? Consumed by his execration of Israel, perhaps Christianity will disappear by choice in Islam. It is not the choice of the people, but of their political leaders.

What do you think of Emmanuel Macron's victory?

Disappointing. Macron’s election will continue the national and international policy instituted by Hallstein with the return of Europe to its energy dependence on Arab rulers and Islam. A nation that refuses to name and acknowledge the danger that the threat is destined to disappear. This danger is dhimmitude.

Giulio Meotti is an Italian journalist with Il Foglio and writes a twice-weekly column for Arutz Sheva. He is the author, in English, of the book "A New Shoah", that researched the personal stories of Israel's terror victims, published by Encounter and of "J'Accuse: the Vatican Against Israel" published by Mantua Books, in addition to books in Italian. His writing has appeared in publications, such as the Wall Street Journal, Gatestone, Frontpage and Commentary.