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AddReply(374542,"R. Wohlberg compares Hebron\'s Jews to Esau","Steve","Fla.","12/24/08","Please bear with me.  Rabbi Wohlberg continues in his anti-Hebron sermon:\n\n\"Are we (the Jews) going to be just like them?\"\n\n\"The answer is found in an incident in this morning’s Torah portion. It is one of the more unfortunate incidents in the Bible where we are told that Dina, the only daughter of Jacob, was\ntaken by Shechem, the leader of a local tribe. Her brothers, Shimon and Levi, in retaliation, tell Shechem’s people that if they circumcise themselves their sister can stay with them. And thus, they do. And on the third day of their circumcision Shimon and Levi go and kill all the men of the tribe. Was what they did justifiable? There are those who defend them, but not their father! \n\n\"Many years later when father Jacob is on his death bed, he gives blessings to his children. And the blessing he gives to Shimon and Levi is not much of a blessing when he says to them, “Shimon and Levi are brethren, stolen tools are their weapons. Let my soul not come into theircouncil, unto their assembly let my glory not be united … curse thee their anger for it is fierce and their wrath it was cruel.” That’s the way a Jewish leader speaks when Jews take the law into their own hands; that’s the way a Jewish leader speaks about acts of terrorism when perpetrated by Jews. Even if the Jews are his own children! \n\nRabbi Wohlberg goes on to compare the Jews of Hebron to Esau, invoking Rashi:\n\n\'On the words “stolen tools are their weapons,”the Biblical commentator Rashi points out, “This craft of murder is in their possession by theft.  Mibirkas Esav hi zo – it is from the blessing of Esau, U’monas shelo hi – it is his craft and you robbed it from him.” Do you hear what Jacob is telling Shimon and Levi? Their actions are not the way of the Jewish people, their actions are the way of Esav. And Rashi goes on to tell us that\nwhen Jacob said: “Shimon and Levi are brethren,” he was saying to them that they are of one mind in the way they dealt with Shechem, and in the way they dealt with Joseph. You see,\nbefore Joseph was thrown into a pit, the Torah tells us, “And one man said to his brother, ‘Come let us kill him.’ It doesn’t say which two of the brothers were the ones who said: Let’s kill him.  But Rashi is saying here that it was Shimon and Levi. He says this by way of deduction, but one commentator pointed out: how did Rashi know that Shimon and Levi were the ones who were prepared to kill their brother? Because they were the ones who killed the people of Shechem …and people who are so ready to kill others will eventually turn on their own.\"\n\nQuite honestly, I am not sure what to make of all this.  Some Jews condemn Shimon and Levi; others say Jacob was too harsh. Jacob (Israel) is one of our fathers and patriarchs.  I am not sure where I stand.  Was Jacob speaking in the name of God when he condemned his two sons?  Perhaps.  Consider the following:\n\n1) As they (Jacob and his family) journeyed, there was a great terror upon the cities which were around them, and they did not pursue the sons of Jacob. (Gen. chapter 35)\n\nIf God was angry, why didn\'t he send the nations against Israel, to punish Jacob\'s sons?\n\n2) Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, \"Whoever is for the LORD, come to me!\" And all the sons of Levi gathered together to him. \n\nHe said to them, \"Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, \'Every man of you put his sword upon his thigh, and go back and forth from gate to gate in the camp, and kill every man his brother, and every man his friend, and every man his neighbor.\' \" \n\nSo the sons of Levi did as Moses instructed, and about three thousand men of the people fell that day. (Exodus chapter 32)\n\nThis is pretty rough stuff.  Jew on Jew violence.  I wonder where Rabbi Wohlberg would stand here. \n\n \n");
AddReply(374525,"Michelle...","Larry","TA","12/24/08","Hello. I can\'t speak for Daniel, but I would differentiate between Hasbara, directed mostly to the Gentile audience, and the response to Jews like this rabbi. Certainly intelligent Hasbara, combined with an activist, assertive security policy, makes sense. Trying to explain, though, to adult, educated (in general) Diaspora Jews who willfully ignore Israel, don\'t visit it, and reliablly collapse in a heap of, well, fear, anytime Pollard or Jenin, etc., pop up, then....Daniel is right. It is one thing to educate those who are willing to be educated, but another to beg to your own brethren - people who have brains, resources and Jewish parents - to see actual realities instead of those that serve the interest of Ehud Barak or Condi Rice.\n\nChag Sameach");
AddReply(374422,"R. Wohlberg is on the side of democracy","Steve","Fla.","12/24/08","I did a google search.  I found this rabbi\'s sermon.  Rabbi Wohlberg said in part:\n\n\"Have we lost our minds? No, I don’t think it’s that … it is more that we’re in danger of losing our souls … our Jewish souls. I believe that Jews have a historic right to every inch of the land of Israel. I believe that Jews should be able to live in Hebron just as Arabs are able to live in Tel Aviv. But the battles we are talking about now are not over the land of Israel, they are over\nthe state of Israel … the state of the state of Israel. Are we going to be what we are meant to be: an ohr lagoyim – a light unto the nations? Or are we going to be “just like them?”\n\nI believe this rabbi is wrong.  The battle is indeed over the land of Israel.  State institutions are increasingly criminalizing the Jews \"historic right to every inch of the land of Israel;\" the very right this rabbi pretends to support.  \n\nIsn\'t this what the Sharon / Bush \"disengagement\" was about?  The Jews right to live in Biblical Israel?  All of it?  Ariel Sharon forcibly uprooted thousands of peaceful, law-abiding Jewish citizens from Biblical Israel in order to please his Washington handlers; in order to make the land judenrein in keeping with the Islamic mandate that there be no Jews in \'Palestine\'.  The battle with the state only comes into focus when the state violates our covenant with the Almighty, which is what this is about.  Make no mistake about it.  \n\nIt seems to me, this rabbi is on the side of \"democracy.\"   R. Wohlberg is not on the side of Torah when Torah conflicts with the state.   If the state of Israel violates our covenant, Rabbi Wohlberg sides with the state, because the government is elected by \"the people.\"\n\nCase in point (excerpts):\n\nInterview of the President by Israeli Television Channel 1 \nBy Yaron Deckel, Israeli Television Channel 1 \nBush Ranch, Crawford, Texas \nAugust 11, 2005\n\nQ Mr. President, thank you very much for the first interview granted to Israeli TV and for hosting us in your beautiful ranch in Texas. \n\nTHE PRESIDENT: Well, welcome, thanks for coming. It\'s an honor to have you here and it\'s an honor to speak on Israeli TV...... \n\nQ You know, the main concern of Israel is that the disengagement might lead not to more security, but, on the contrary, to more violence. Do you understand the concerns? \n\nTHE PRESIDENT: Oh, absolutely, I understand. And I can understand why people think this decision is one that will create a vacuum into which terrorism will flow. I happen to disagree.....\n\nQ As a believer, Mr. President, what do you say to Jewish believers who think that God sent them to settle in the biblical Israel and they will not obey any decision of elected government? \n\nTHE PRESIDENT: Well, you know, there are admonitions in the Bible that does talk about the role of government relative to man. And Israel is a democracy and democracies are able to express the will of the people. The Prime Minister is expressing what he thinks is in the best interests of Israel and the people will decide, ultimately, whether or not that decision makes sense.....\n\nRabbi Wohlberg and Mr. Bush are on the same page. \n\n\n");
AddReply(374400,"Apostate rabbis?","Steve","Fla.","12/24/08","How can a rabbi hold the title -- especially an Orthodox rabbi -- and have no respect for our covenant with God?  The land of Israel is our covenant.  Every rabbi should know this.");
AddReply(374268,"A legitimate question","Michelle","Vancouver","12/23/08","Although I disagree with the extent of Mike\'s desired reaction (a riot), the question remains:  Why haven\'t the Jews of Hebron, Yesha and every town in Israel organized self-defense groups?\n\nI\'m all for exposing unfairness in an articulate and civil manner, but when it comes to the real life of Israeli Jews being attacked by Arabs, Neo-Nazis, Anarchists, assorted leftists, foreign activists, Israeli police and army... (have I forgotten anyone?).... well, they seem to be facing it all without even being allowed to fight back or, in the most dangerous situations, to use a weapon in self-defense.\n\nJews have been charged for daring to fire a weapon into the air, even in very threatening situations.\n\nBy the way, how about the use of non-lethal weapons, then?  There are very sophisticated ones these days....\n\nAnyway, back to my original question, why not use well-trained and well-equipped \'unofficial\' security guards in the streets of Hebron and other localities?\n\n");
AddReply(374250,"They must not be allowed to get away with it","Michelle","Vancouver","12/23/08","History tends to repeat itself.  Some American Jews - even rabbis - failed to help when the Jews of Europe were being slaughtered.  \n\nNow we have this Baltimore rabbi propagating hateful lies.  We also have the pro-Arab Rabbis for Human Rights and others, all working against the interest of the imperiled Jews of Israel.  . \n\nThere are many ways of fighting back.  This column does its job very well.  And there are other ways too.\n\nPerhaps it’s time to have an online Rabbis’ Watch, just like we have Campus Watch and UN Watch.  I\'m not kidding about this.\n\nToo many rabbis fail in the most basic principle of supporting Israeli Jews and the land of Israel.  Because nobody can claim to support Israel and at the same time be indifferent to the dismemberment of the land and the abuse of Jewish human rights there.  Rabbis too need to be accountable.\n\nIn the internet age nobody can claim ignorance of the facts.  But just to make sure, the American public also needs to have the truth presented to them in a direct but appealing manner.  They have been exposed to too much misinformation by the media, leading Jews, and even rabbis.  Someone needs to set the facts straight.\n\nSince some people don\'t like to be preached at, like to be entertained and respond positively to children, why not wrap the message with a visiting children\'s performance and exhibit.\n\nHebron could send a delegation to the US consisting of a children\'s orchestra, for example, complemented by a children\'s art and photography exhibit, with plenty of educational illustrations about Hebron\'s history and present life, honest and without sparing the details...A picture is worth a thousand words.\n\n(There must be a philanthropist or two who survived the financial meltdown and the Madoff fraud being able to sponsor it.)\n\nAnd about the youth of Judea and Samaria, they are an inspiration.  The girls are tough and courageous, and even the little kids take on terrorists.\n\nWho could forget nine-year old Tovia, from Yitzhar, who fought off a terrorist.\n\nhttp://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/127861\n\nAmericans needs to know more about these things.  \n");
AddReply(374236,"I see my first comment went unpublished","Mike","Vienna, VA","12/23/08","I will not repeat it.  I will, however, reiterate that only suicidal fools would permit Jewish girls to walk around alone and unarmed in Hebron.  The incident with the girls is nothing to be proud of.  Only by the grace of Hashem were they spared rape and murder.  Were the Jewish community of Hebron led by men truly interested in the welfare of the residents, the result of the incident would have been two dead Arabs and a planned riot conducted by the local force battalion.\n\nI will also reiterate that Wilder\'s entire response to this latest incident illustrates the utter moral and mental bankruptcy of the so-called leaders of Yosh.  I call upon every one of them to cede the funds they are incapable of managing, the weapons they are unwilling to use and the authority they are manifestly unfit to wield to the leaders of the Hilltop Youth.");
AddReply(374215,"Sorry, David & Daniel, but my TB was censored.","sk","USA","12/23/08","It was a pretty good one, too--much more sophisticated than anything that your censor could ever conceive of.\n\nI do appreciate the censorship, though, as it makes life so much simpler for me.  As it has taken hold at A7, my dislike and contempt for Israelis has increased.  There are still a few good apples in your country, but not many.  So I don\'t have to worry about how Obama/Hillary will treat Israel.\n\nAs my last suggestion on this blog (henceforth I will only reply on Tamar\'s), I strongly recomment you buy, read, and ponder Ayn Rand\'s _Atlas Shrugged_.  Israel\'s sickness is not, on its surface, quite the same as the one she explores, but actually has much in common with it.");
AddReply(373994,"to #3 and #4","Janet Kasten Friedman","Kochav HaShachar  Israel","12/22/08","II agree with Pinner and Savta from Askelon that deeds are more important than words, expecially the BS spouted by some of the enemies of the Jews. And I certainly wish David (and all Jews, expecially those in Hebron) a simchadik Hanukka. BUT I disagree with your idea that refuting the slander against Hebronites and other settlers is a waste of time. I think it is important to blow the whistle on people who talk like prophets of morality while sitting temporarily safely in the US. They speak so authoritatively, as if THEY REALLY KNOW that the Jews of Hebron are evil; when in reality they don\'t understand the situation at all. I appreciate Wilder\'s orderly and articulate writing, and I think it contributes greatly to the public discourse. We should not be silent and people dictate \"morality\" based on their own ignorance rather than on the Torah. ");
AddReply(373948,"To #3: don\'t paint all Jews in galus the same","Yitzi","USA","12/22/08","Many (including myself) do support the Israeli right-wing.");
AddReply(373935,"Re: Pinner Remarks","Larry","TA","12/22/08","I agree. I have seen just how much contempt Gentiles hold for us in the \'sweetest\' provinces of the Galut. The Jews there must deny it to feel \'at home\', and must stand apart - many of them - from Israel since we make them stand out. The hatred visited upon Israel from many quarters is instinctively felt as an attack on them, but they can\'t admit it because it bursts the bubble. \n\nDaniel is also right that these two girls issued a \'rabbinical ruling\' of sorts to the Arabs. No doubt they are tougher than Tel Aviv girls, who are like iron compared to most in Galut. Stand proud, David, you are a pioneer. Ignore the rabbi from Baltimore, cold and shivering and asking for an exemption from membership in his people. Just stand strong. You have a lot of reserves - even on B-G Blvd in TA.");
AddReply(373816,"David re Rabbi Wohlberg","Miriam","Ashkelon","12/22/08","Please don\'t be so upset.  It sickens me when I hear - from a Rabbi nogal - the hatred he spews from an American pulpit.  I have a dog that gets on my nerves sometimes.  I find that if I ignore him, he goes away.  Lets not give Wohlberg any more publicity.  You and your family have a wonderful Channukah in a wonderful city where you are so priviledged to live.  Continue with your articles-  from an OLD SAFTA in Ashkelon.");
AddReply(373788,"Mr Wilder, you have a habit of speaking the truth clearly & forcefully","Daniel Pinner","Kfar Tapuach","12/22/08","But in this case, one can ask - why bother? True, this sermon is sickening in every possible way - its content, its style, its intended effect on its intended audience. It epitomises the galut Jew - terrified of \"what will the goyim say?\", perpetually seeking a sop of kindness from the local baron, even at the expense of betraying other Jews.\n\nBut so what? This is nothing new. This has been galut ever since galut has existed. Just as it \"is a known halacha that Eisav hates Ya\'akov\" (Sifrei, Numbers 69); and just as \"the hatred of the Jewish ignoramus for the Talmid Chacham is greater than the Gentiles\' hatred for Israel\" (Pesachim 49b); so too the hatred of the galut Jew for Jews who stand proud and strong in Israel is something vicious, noxious, and pathological.\n\nHaving said that - again, so what? Two young women who successfully fought off Arab attackers do more to determine \"halacha le-ma\'aseh\" (practical halacha) in Hebron than all the rabbis in galut put together. Wohlberg, and every other galut rabbi from Baltimore to Bangkok, can fulminate against \"settlers\" till he is blue in the face, and he won\'t remove a single one of us from our homes.\n\nPerhaps this is the message we ought to be internalising.Our actions, here in Israel, are what will change history. The rantings of galut are as relevant as the musings of a cuttlefish.\n\nChag urim smae\'ach!");
AddReply(373777,"do not judge us in Israel so harshly","Sarah","Beit El","12/22/08","American Jews who sit back in comfortable homes,  must begin their own soul searching indeed. With antisemitism of the rise, the reality of being treated like enemies of state may not be so far off. And do not judge us in Israel so harshly, for the security of all Jewry rests on the security of Israeli Jewry.");
AddReply(373731,"Chag Urim Sameach David","Isaac ","Arkansas","12/22/08","Thank G-d the girls are ok!!  Thank you for calling out this bunch of bull. \nIt is harding enough hearing the venom come out of leftest media.  It is absolutley sickening to hear it out of a Jew.     ");

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