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AddReply(346506,"mike 23 link please","velvel","silver spring","09/25/08","Please post a link to your source where you claim that Feiglin says such a thing.  Thank you");
AddReply(344958,"Larry, thanks for getting a q? ","satch","UK","09/20/08","straightened out!   I suspected that either s.k. or \'Mike\'  was a ventrioliquist!  lol.   I never fail to read in entirety All they write--so am either being educated or someday [bewildered]  but enjoying the trip!  Thanks for the responses");
AddReply(344729,"To #21: As Feiglin himself admitted in a recent editorial...","Mike","Vienna, VA","09/19/08","...if he ever looks like he has a chance of success, the Shabak will murder him like they murdered R. Meir Kahane (z\"l) and his son.\n\nDoes this answer your question?");
AddReply(344692,"#21, Nope!","Rob","usa","09/19/08","They MUST be punished, not coddled. this is how it works. there will be no forgiveness for most. there is no other alternative to resistance/struggle for a true jewish state. Please learn the Rav Kahane. this will open your eyes to the true battle.");
AddReply(344624,"#17 sk - I took up your challenge","Michelle","Vancouver","09/19/08","I\'m also a practical person.  And add Very Stubborn to that too.  I\'m not giving up.\n\nSo sk, here\'s the other alternative you asked for.  It\'s still in the realm of the possible, although bordering on desperation.  But these are desperate times.\n\nWhat if Moshe Feiglin listens to reason and walks out of Likud, taking with him all his supporters, plus some of Bibi\'s as well, the disenchanted ones.\n\nWhat if he approaches the newly formed Hatikva (does it still have a pulse?) party.  \n\nWhat if this coalition were the start of something beautiful for Israel, with all those guys leaving their egos at home and concentrating on winning the election.  And then doing an in-depth reform of the electoral/judicial systems, while passing a law making it illegal to cede Israeli land?\n\nThey might need Shas to form a coalition.  Shas, the problem child of Israeli politics, won\'t reform.  Not in the short term.  So I\'d say go ahead and play along with them (desperate times, remember?).  Offer them the sun and the moon, whatever they want in terms of social programs.  I think that Feiglin would not be averse to directing a lot of the budget to social programs either.\n\nAfter this pro-Israel coalition has defanged the left, cleaned up the system, and saved Israel, they can pick up their egos and resume their usual infighting.\n\nThe left-Arab coalition is relatively small in numbers.  The reason Israel is spiraling down is due mostly to the division within the nationalistic center and right wing.\n\nThat\'s my \"expert\" opinion, anyway.  ;-)");
AddReply(344417,"Dear Larry","Rob","usa","09/18/08","Trust me Bro, there is a heavy price one pays for supporting the Jews of the Holy Land.   Best Larry, rob");
AddReply(344390,"Do you remember what happened when Moshe first defied the Pharaoh?","Mike","Vienna, VA","09/18/08","The pharaoh ordered the Jews to make bricks without straw.\n\nIn any revolutionary armed struggle, things get very much worse before they get even a little better.  ");
AddReply(344384,"Hey A\'all!","American","CHELM","09/18/08","Check this:\nhttp://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/127660\nIDF Demolishes Jewish Community Against Court Order \nby Ze\'ev Ben-Yechiel\n\nNoting Mike & SK, I have to work with a good friend that lived in the US as a contractor for many years.  It is the only way we (I) can accomplish things in Israel.  I can pass as Israeli, but when I speak, the prices shoot up and other problems arise. HE is Israeli. Thus we can accomplish much,- easier and cheaper.  \nRelate that to what Mike is saying.");
AddReply(344355,"Michelle","sk","USA","09/18/08","Others have said what I would have said if I were quicker on the draw.  So, all I\'d add is that I am a very practical fellow.  I would have been happy to see Israel as a true democratic republic where Jews could live as they saw fit within wide parameters (which would exclude, by the way, massive subsidies for the Haredim).  This Israel wouldn\'t be a \"Jewish state\" per se, but it would be a state for Jews and for no one else (which would involve incorportating Yesha, expelling the Fakestinians, and gradually squeezing out the so-called Israeli Arabs by forcing them to comply with the law--e.g., they would have to pay income taxes, they would be imprisoned for treason, etc.).  In my preferred Israel, gay pride parades could be held in \"new\" Jerusalem (not the Old City) without any legal question, and Jews could pray on the Temple Mount any time they wanted.  The state of Israel, then, would be a vehicle, neither holy nor unholy, for any Jew who would want to live there.\n\nWELL, this is impractical.  So, I\'m now going with my next-best choice:  a state for \"Jews\" and a state for \"Israelis\" (Halachic Jews who do not want to live in a Torah Republic).  My first choice is impractical because Israelis will not do what needs to be done to make it happen.  The status quo is impractical because of the enemies that surround Israel and the ruthlessness of the elites that is facilitated by the system and the neighborhood.\n\nIf there is another alternative, I\'d be happy to hear of it, but so far, nothing has been offered.");
AddReply(344321,"#14, 15 - Daniel and Mike","Michelle","Vancouver","09/18/08","I won\'t argue with you.  I have a paranoid streak so I always think of the \"what ifs\".  \n\nSo based on past events in the past 60 years, I have a very clear notion of how evil the people in charge can be. \n\nTactics will have to be continually modified, as the IDF adapts.  (BTW this is why I have been in favor of military service for Yesha Jews too, so they\'ll train.)\n\nThey don\'t have enough support among the general population (didn\'t have to be this way), so there won\'t be much of an outcry if the IDF/police moves in with all they\'ve got after the first casualty on their side.\n\nIf outposts/towns are truly abandoned by the IDF, anything goes, I would say.  But be prepared for extreme retaliation by the government because, as it should be obvious to everyone now, it\'s a government that represents the interests of the Arabs, not the Jews.  \n\nWhat will you do if the Arab/Gov\'t alliance decides to teach you a lesson, and G-d forbids, the Arabs attack you en masse?\n\nI\'d like to sound more positive, but I feel very protective of the struggling Yesha Jews and apprehensive as to what might happen.\n\nOne last point:  it doesn\'t have to be an either-or choice as far as your and my view (alliance with other Israeli groups, PR campaigns, appeals for Diaspora support) is concerned.  \n\nAt this point the Arabs are the masters at this.  Not because they are smarter, but because the West has assisted them in every way:  PR, fundraising, Pallywood, support from influential people, financing, exploiting the enemy\'s weaknesses, etc.  Intifada alone would have never done it.  They multi-task.  And now look at the results.\n\nYesha Jews need allies.  Heroism alone can only take them so far.  They are facing enemies of still unimaginable evil.\n");
AddReply(344281,"If wishes were fishes, Michelle...","Mike","Vienna, VA","09/18/08","What you are seeing among the youth of Yesha has a technical name.  It\'s called \"spontaneous resistance\" or \"stage 0\".  In a stage 0 environment, new olim are useless because they can\'t hide, move freely or strike freely.  When there is a stage 1 transition, with either a classic central organization or a bunch of Marighella cells and a Resistance Coordinating Committee or a hybrid form with a political party openly demanding partition and an RCC and Marighella cells and a classic guerilla force all operating at once, then there is a place for new olim.");
AddReply(344275,"To Michelle Vancouver","Daniel","Kyoto","09/18/08","I disagree... big crowds are a waste of resources and can get hammered by the Yassam. Vienna Mike suggests much more effective tactics- small groups whose purpose is to annoy. Make the approach to the outpost as hard as possible, and then let them find it abandoned. Think in terms of how to force them to waste as many resources as possible while maximally preserving our own. That\'s the way to win tactical exchanges. Tested by history, and absolutely correct.");
AddReply(344271,"Larry, there is a simple explanation...","sk","USA","09/18/08","... for why Mike & I sometimes use the same language:  we pay attention to each other\'s TBs--something you might try for a change.  So, if I think Mike has a particularly pungent bit of rhetoric, I am happy to adopt it, and vice-versa.\n\nThe alternative is that Mike & I are the same person, which would make me the most amazing Renaissance Man living today, but nevertheless stupid enough to leave obvious telltale signs that you could so easily penetrate.\n\nWhy don\'t you go to Mike\'s (oops!  my) blog and review comments to the current entry, where you will see me challenge some of what Mike (oops!  I mean I) wrote.  Then you can assess Mike\'s (my) response to me.\n\nAs for our Belman, he\'s not just another guy, he\'s the pro-Expulsion editor of Israpundit, who now lies about his history, just as many other pundits do.  Belman is unusual, though, in calling *me* the liar.  I explain on MY blog (skzion) why I am focusing on Belman in particular.  The issue is not that he supported the Expulsion, but that he did and now lies about it, rewriting history and thereby maintaining his status as a pro-Israel pundit, rather than a typical, opportunistic political player.\n\nAs for your comment that I would not have to suffer the consequences of implementing my \"DEMANDS,\" this is irrelevant.  Right now, I suffer the consequences of you boneheaded Israelis doing the same dumb things decade after decade.  The main consequence looks to be the destruction of Israel in the next 10-20 years.  But anyway, if you consider the advice stupid, you\'d be a fool to risk your happy-go-lucky life on it.  If you think it is good advice, you\'d be a fool to ignore it.\n\nI repeat that given Israelis\' demonstrated ability not to act rationally, I\'d be a fool to try to work with them.\n\nFinally, as for Wilder, I actually wrote my comment about suburbanites and frisbees without him specifically in mind.");
AddReply(344192,"Larry if you think that","Velvel","silver spring","09/18/08","If you think that sk and mike are the same guy, you are even less perceptive than your namesake, the evil larry \"doofus\" derfner of jpost.  Come on man, get real.    If you have something of value or substance to say against their comments, spit it out.  Otherwise what you say is gobble-dy gook.  \n\nThis article has an important take home lesson.  Anyone that can\'t see it is blinded or delusional.   The Israeli government WILL CONSIDER THIS PLAN.    THEY WILL PUSH FOR THIS.   So the Jews in Hevron are left with no choice.   They must prepare for that worst case scenario if their \"protection\" (which, let\'s face it, isn\'t protection at all in most cases in yesha, but just a help for the enemy) leaves.   If the PLO has \"troops\" in Hevron, there must be a Jewish force - especially since the IDF will be pulled out.   There must be a Jewish defense force.   Otherwise it will be \"open season.\"    ");
AddReply(344182,"#6 Mike","Michelle","Vancouver","09/17/08","I understand. If there is no choice.\n\nAlthough there have been many wasted opportunities to make Israel a viable country for all Jews, possibly with separate cantons for different communities.  If they could have worked it out...  \n\nThe latest report on A7 \"Jewish Residents Prevent Expulsion by IDF\" gives us hope:\n\n\"After gathering a force of soldiers and demolition equipment, the Israel Defense Forces cancelled the demolition when they understood the size of the crowd that they were up against, marking another victory for Jewish pioneers defending their homes against what they believe to be an immoral government policy.\"\n\nhttp://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/127652\n\nBig crowds, innovative tactics, and unity among Jews will be decisive.  \n");
AddReply(344156,"#7 -  Larry","Michelle","Vancouver","09/17/08","Once I wrote a TB somewhere asking why didn\'t Yesha Jews try to reach out to the Israelis to dispel the myths that the leftists have been exploiting in the media, in schools, etc.  Later on I thought I had been very naive.\n\nBut today I read the column \"E Pluribus Pluribus\" on A7 advocating a similar thing.  What floored me were some of the responses.  One of them says:\n\n\"....secular Jews being more than content to have the frum live in their own neighborhoods where we don\'t have to be the recipients of their sanctimoniously looking down their noses at us while simultaneously wishing to teach us ...\"\n\nSo the secular Israelis resent being looked down upon by the observant Jews, and the observant - according to the columnist - are uncomfortable mixing with the secular.\n\nThis is insane.\n\nIn any other place people would unite in the face of their common enemies:  Iran and the Arabs, of course, but also the US and their lackeys in the Israeli government.\n\nIn the meantime, your enemies keep advancing through \"diplomacy\" and using traitors within, while Israelis - secular and religious alike - are losing.  \n\nThat\'s why I\'m not sure what\'s going to save Israel and Yesha anymore.\n\nMy personal choice would be to see a mass movement of Israelis united to save their land.  If only so many of them could be made to understand that there\'s nothing to be gained by what this so-called Israeli government is doing.\n\nSo perhaps the only option available for patriotic Jews, whether they live in Yesha or in Tel Aviv, is to act according to their conscience, whatever that might involve.  \n\nFrom where I am, I have no right to advocate or rule out anything.  \n\nI constantly fear for all of you, and at the same time I stand in awe of patriotic fighters, including that 9 year old Yitzhak Jew who wrestled the knife out of the terrorist\'s hands, or the teenaged girls who defied Israeli authority and suffered months in jail for that.  \n\nOn the other hand, there are those who have been seriously injured, jailed, separated from their families, had their lives destroyed.  \n\nYou\'re right.  This is a very personal decision.\n\nAll the best to you, Larry.\n\nMichelle ");
AddReply(344144,"Larry, the similarities you see between...","Mike","Vienna, VA","09/17/08","...Vienna Mike and SK come from the simple fact that we both share the same cultural roots.  If you read Russian, you would be able to find about 3000 talkbackers who share the same features.  We don\'t have the humanist baggage you Anglos have, nor do we believe in moral relativism.\n\nAs for the rest of your argument, I will not even bother to credit it with a detailed response.  Go read the entries at the Virtual Medinat Yehudah.  While you are at it, read the scribble board.  SK is his own man.  But Vienna Mike knows enough to understand that no new oleh can be of any use until those already in Israel wake up and start acting in their own self-defense.\n\nI am encouraged by the small signs of awakening among the Jews of Yesha.  But until the spontaneous protests turn into a coherent demand for a Jewish State, all the likes of Vienna Mike can do is provide education and moral support.");
AddReply(344138,"Let\'s pray that it doesn\'t happen!","David","Jerusalem","09/17/08","Because if it does, I don\'t think that they people of Kiryat Arba-Hebron will lay down like the ones from 1929. May the supposed leaders of country be removed and punished long before this possibility happens.");
AddReply(344127,"SK, Michelle & Mike","Larry","TA","09/17/08","First, I am still not convinced that SK and Mike are not two monikers for the same guy. There are hints, using similar language (\'sweetie\', \'dear\' for guys), strong violent tendencies, failure of SK and Mike to ever criticize one another while frequently attacking right-wingers; the blogging thing, the total evisceration of anyone defined as an enemy. Thus, SK, who claims he is rational, has an absolute and irrational hatred of Ted Belman, who is just another guy with an opinion. Both SK and Mike practice scorched earth as a rule. Both are always 100% right, and both \'religiously\' discourage those who, for example, agree with them 50 or 70%.\n\nHaving said that, the other problem is that no consequencs of actions DEMANDED of Israelis by Mike or SK will be borne by them. Why? Because, as rational and free guys, supposedly, they would never go live in such a fascist country. Okay. So even if I agree with the SK/Mike analysis, and I am one of the few posting here who agrees that Israelis must stand up vigorously against current policies, I am the one to go to prison. I am actually considering this. That is, I know that I can\'t live in Israel without being politically active, and in such a way that I might end up in jail. But SK and Mike won\'t be joining me, so I have to hope just for postcards. \n\nSo to Michelle: it is easy to say, and there is some evidence to say, that \'Israelis\' all hate \'Jews\' and persecute them systematically. It is not yet clear that this is the case. And living in Israel does still show a more complex reality.\n\nFinally, for SK to assign David Wilder the title of suburbanite is a poor choice. It may apply to Fishman or the Medads; it hardly applies to those living in the heart of Hebron.");
AddReply(344115,"Because they have no choice, Michelle","Mike","Vienna, VA","09/17/08","Ein brera is a great advantage.  It is the only advantage they have.");
AddReply(344101,"sk - My PS to #4","","","09/17/08","Which does not preclude mass insurrection, of course.  But how do you convince a large number of people at this time to separate Yesha from Israel?  There are Yesha men in the IDF too...\n\nThis is exceedingly complicated and I don\'t know enough.  I\'m just concerned about issues such as infiltrators and police/IDF brutality against Jews.");
AddReply(344059,"sk","Michelle","Vancouver","09/17/08","I have noticed that you have become a sympathizer of a more \"active\" way of opposing the Israeli occupation of Jewish land ... (I still have to get used to this.) \n\nI can\'t say I disagree, but I am very apprehensive of the ruthlessness, even brutality, with which Israelis treat the Jews.  \n\nThere\'s no Constitution, sk.  There is not even the pretense of following the law.  Jews are rounded up (awful connotations) and put in jail on the basis of what they \"might\" do.\n\nThere\'s not only no freedom of speech in Israel, there\'s no freedom of thought.  They jail Jews for what they might be thinking.\n\nThe greatest advances made by the Arabs have been made through PR  (lies and everything) and through exploiting other governments\' anti-Semitism.  They have the Eurabians and the State Department eating out of their hands.\n\nWhy would Yesha Jews, with the intellectual and economic resources available, have to resort to guerrilla warfare?  Why have they allowed the Jewish world to abandon them.");
AddReply(344010,"P.S.","sk","USA","09/17/08","\"From October 2000 thru Passover 2002, the Hebron became a war zone, with almost nonstop shooting attacks, in and around the city. Only when Israeli forces returned to all of Hebron did the attacks cease.\"\n\nMy understanding (and I am willing to be corrected) is that the attacks did not \"cease\"; they declined.  So your implied idea is to maintain ISRAELI occupation, as opposed to JEWISH control?\n\nHey, where\'s Pinner?");
AddReply(344008,"Gee, could Vienna Mike have been right?","sk","USA","09/17/08","I dunno.  I\'m an addled suburbanite with a kippah the size of a frisbee.");
AddReply(343991,"That is \'writting on the Wall\'","Dan","Atlanta","09/17/08","A tanach reference that Prophet Daniel was involved in.  Maybe you shoud sign-up security forces now.");

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