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AddReply(364900,"answer for leftists - part 4 of 4","Leah","Maaleh Adumim","11/25/08","b) if they prefer to be full citizens of their country of residence, they are welcome to move to any of the 22 arab countries who can give them full citizenship.  I would even be in favor of giving them a relocation bonus for doing so.  this is not “forced expulsion”.  certainly not like the forced expulsion of Jews from arab countries at the time of Israel’s independence, when all their property was stolen and the “lucky” ones escaped with their lives.  \n\nthe 22 arab countries, which are Judenrein, comprise 99% of the middle east.  certainly the Jews should be permitted to live in the 1% of the middle east which just happens to be our ancestral homeland.  this is the only way to achieve justice for all.");
AddReply(364899,"answer for leftists - part 3 of 4","Leah","Maaleh Adumim","11/25/08","therefore, Israel should annex all of Eretz Yisrael west of the Jordan, at least the parts that haven\'t been temporarily given to PLO and Hamas. and what about the arabs living in these areas?  \n\na) if they prefer the advantages of living under Israeli rule, where they have more rights and privileges than they would have in any arab country, they can stay where they are as legal residents, with all civil rights and *all obligations of residency*, but without voting rights.  \n\nthese obligations include full payment of taxes (like everyone else) and national service for  all 18-year-olds. also observance of basic laws.  any “legal resident” who is convicted of theft, murder, or any other violent crime should be deported.  terrorism should be punished by deportation of both the perpetrator (if he/she is still alive) and his/her immediate family.");
AddReply(364898,"answer for leftists - part 2 of 4","Leah ","Maaleh Adumim","11/25/08","“land for peace” doesn’t work. whenever we give them land, we get more war and less peace. and since I don’t know how to breathe underwater, let’s talk about some more realistic options that will guarantee justice for *both sides*.  \n\nmany people live in the US with a \"green card\".  in fact – many illegal immigrants would be very happy to have a green card.  a person with a green card has full civil rights and full obligations to the US, but is not a citizen and cannot vote.  many people prefer to live in the US with a \"green card\" rather than in their home country where they would be able to vote but without the US standard of living.\n\ndoes this make the US an \"apartheit\" state?  not at all.  if civil rights are guaranteed to all then the country does not practice \"apartheit\". there is no obligation to grant citizenship & voting rights to everyone who immigrated into your country.");
AddReply(364897,"answer for leftists part 1 of 4","Leah","Maaleh Adumim","11/25/08","Assaf, you’ve omitted some possibilities, so let\'s see what Israel *can* do.\n\nfirst your #4 – there is no importance to the “green line”. it was just the cease-fire line when Israel’s war of independence ended. the arabs don’t recognize the “green line”, or even the “red line” (the one that would limit the Jews to just northern Tel Aviv). the only one they recognize is the “blue line” (where all Jews have been thrown into the sea and the arabs control all of Eretz Yisrael under the phony name of “Palestine” that was invented by the Romans).\n\nthe arabs have never said that they will make peace with Israel.  sometimes they say things in English that *sound like* they are willing to make peace, but then they tell the truth in arabic: this is just a ruse to get what they can from the Jews, to attack us more efficiently, and move all Jews over the “blue line”.  ");
AddReply(363551,"Leah, I am aware the Jews are the natives.  Assaf, you\'ve not a good argument","Steve","US","11/20/08","The reason I cite the north American example of expansionism and settlement is because the U.S. is hypocritically in the forefront demanding Israel give her land to a foreign enemy.\n\nAssaf, are you aware, White Europeans considered the Native Americans uncivilized savages?  Did you know they were considered as \"wards\" to a guardian?  Did you know these \"savages\" were not granted citizenship for close to there centuries from the time the Puritans settled the New England area?\n\nWhy must we grant an internal enemy citizenship after we annex these lands that belong to the Jews by right?\n\nAmerican settlers demanded the forcible expulsion of the Native Americans West of the Mississippi river. (See the 1830 Indian Removal Act,)  Why can we not use the American example.  Americans are proud of their history!");
AddReply(363405,"Steve, here\'s an answer for you","Assaf","NYC","11/20/08","Israel\'s character as a *democratic Jewish* state is dependent solely its Jewish majority. The settlers are pushing Israel to install sovereignty over areas that will render the Jewish population under Israeli control a minority within a few years. So the options are:\n1- Continue to forcibly control the lands without annexing them and granting citizenship to all - ethnic minority controlling a majority- an Apartheid state, no more a democracy, eventually moving towards options 2 and 3\n2- Forcibly expel the Arab majority from lands under your control- ethnic cleansing, war crimes and eventual destruction of the state (if not from outside forces, then from internal strife) \n3- Annex the lands, effectively granting citizenship to all- an Arab state\n4- Leave these lands thus solidifying the Jewish majority and have a chance (not a certainty) for peaceful relations.\n");
AddReply(363372,"\"settlers\" and natives","Leah","Maaleh Adumim","11/19/08","Steve, good points about US history, but in Israel the Jews are the natives and the arabs are illegal immigrants & invaders. we are the original natives of Eretz Yisrael since around 1000 BCE. there were times when Eretz Yisrael was conquered and many of the Jews were forcefully exiled but there were Jews living in Eretz Yisrael continuously from ancient times till today. in the ottoman period the non-Jewish population of Eretz Yisrael was in constant decline but was \"reinforced\" by non-Jews brought in from egypt, central asia (\"circassians\"), etc. while at the same time Jews wanted to return to Eretz Yisrael but the turks did not permit it. however, with great effort by Jews during the 19th century, the land that had become desolate was rehabilitated. and then the so-called \"palestinians\" came in looking for work just like illegal immigrants in the US and Europe. they are not natives!");
AddReply(363309,"Assaf, how is Israel\'s settlement movement a threat to her survival?","Steve","US","11/19/08","You wrote in part: \"...my reserve duties in Gaza (etc.) gave me all the info I need to come to the conclusion that the settler movement is a threat to Israel\'s survival in its present form as a democratic Jewish state.\"\n\nIt would appear you are a US citizen for now, like me.  Perhaps you are aware, White Europeans had their own settlement movement (a massive one) here in North America.  We had President Andrew Jackson and his Indian wars, the 1830 Congressional Indian Removal Act, whereby the five \"civilized\" tribes were forcibly removed west of the Mississippi River.  We had the the Trail of Tears. There was Manifest Destiny whereby the settlement movement went west into Texas, California, Oregon, etc.\n\nWhy is Israel\'s settlement movement a threat to her survival as Jewish state anymore than America\'s settlement movement was a threat to her survival?");
AddReply(363087,"Assaf, you are on the losing side of history","Leah","Maaleh Adumim","11/19/08","obviously you do not believe anything I write, no matter how factual.  instead you prefer to believe leftist lies. very sad.");
AddReply(362871,"Leah, you are on the losing side of history","Assaf","NYC","11/18/08","It won\'t do me or you any help in continuing bashing our heads against each other. Believe what you want. Racism exist in every society on this earth and Israel is not excluded. You carry this foul flag well. My upbringing in the mainstream Israeli education system, my military service in Hebron and until recently my reserve duties in Gaza gave me all the info I need to come to the conclusion that the settler movement is a threat to Israel\'s survival in its present form as a democratic Jewish state. You may believe otherwise, and its your right, but viewed from a larger perspective there is no doubt that Israel is in the process of detaching itself from the territories as an act of self preservation. When the day comes, and its near, I\'ll be happy to help you find a suitable home inside Israel. Or if you choose to accept a Palestinian citizenship, I\'ll be happy to pay you a visit. ");
AddReply(362859,"\"Jews do not murder innocents - only arabs do\" says Leah","Assaf","NYC","11/18/08","For the first time, I am without words.");
AddReply(362840,"more lies from Assaf","Leah","Maaleh Adumim","11/18/08","so if the arabs murder innocent Israelis on buses, highways, pizza shops, etc., then Israel isn\'t even allowed to check whether arabs entering Israeli cities are carrying bombs? some of the things that Assaf describes as \"state terrorism\" either didn\'t happen or are described out of context.  they are not \"terrorism\" and in fact, the teeny tiny measures that Israel does take are much much less than any self-respecting country would do to protect its citizens.  *that* is why the arabs are continuing to bomb us.  if Israel would take the same measures that other countries, like the US, have done in much less threatening circumstances, then it would be possible to stop the arab war against us.  but due to  hypocrites like Assaf, Israel is afraid to do what is necessary; and is demonized for doing even 1% of what it *should* be doing.");
AddReply(362513,"Baruch Goldstein - self defense not \"terrorism\"","Leah","Maaleh Adumim","11/17/08","for the truth about Baruch Goldstein, see:\nhttp://www.intellectualconservative.com/article3182.html\n\nof course, leftists like Assaf prefer to repeat lies instead.\n\nalso kiddush hashem is not murder of innocents; it is the willingness to give up one\'s own life when threatened e.g. by goyim trying to force a Jew to convert.  Jews do not murder innocents - only arabs do.  and btw the arabs in the cave of Machpelah were not \"innocent\", they had already made it clear that they were about to perpetrate a massacre of Jews.  see the article.");
AddReply(362511,"Begin was NOT a \"terrorist\"","Leah","Maaleh Adumim","11/17/08","Assaf, I don\'t know if you\'re ignorant, delusional, or just plain dumb. obviously you haven\'t bothered to learn any history except for leftist lies, so here are some FACTS.\n\nduring the British mandate (established by the League of Nations to re-establish the Jewish home in Eretz Yisrael, our ancestral homeland) the British violated the mandate by arming the arabs, doing nothing to arabs who murdered Jews, and preventing Jews from escaping Nazi Europe. they also disarmed the Jews and labelled as \"terrorists\" any Jews who tried to defend Jews or fight against British misrule. the British then libeled the Jews by referring to Begin and other members of Etzel and Lechi as \"terrorists\" which they were NOT.\n\nbtw, the arabs in Eretz Yisrael came here mostly in the 20th century after the Jews rehabilitated the deserts & swamps in the 19th century.  the arabs are NOT \"natives\".  WE are.");
AddReply(362507,"State terror as sponsored by Israel","Assaf","NYC","11/17/08","\'Terror\'- the use of such fear to intimidate people, esp. for political reasons. \n\nWhen discussing the use of \'terror as a way of life\' as Steve here accuses the Palestinian leadership, one should give a hard look at the actions of the Israeli leadership since the first Intifada as well. Both sides use terror as a tool. A quick example: I remember back in 2000 at the first day of the second Intifada Israel sent, for the first time ever, F16 jet fighters to fly over Gaza strip and cause supersonic booms. Along with battleships circling and blockading Gaza, the local population was reacted in pure terror. This was an intentional action by Israel. Ever since then things worsened of course, with blockades, collective punishments, cutting power and essentials, indiscriminate killings, bombings and assassinations. ");
AddReply(362502,"No Assaf, you are mixing things up I think","Steve","US","11/17/08","I would not call the murderous terrorist rampage through the streets of Jerusalem a suicide attack.  He murdered three and wounded sixty six.  \n\nIn the process, he was shot dead by an off-duty soldier.\n\nGoldstein was killed by the Muslim worshippers in the Cave of the Patriarchs.\n\nIf a soldier loses his life in the midst of a battle why do you call this suicide?  Qur\'an commends the martyr who loses his life fighting for Allah.  Paradise is promised for such a martyr.  But this is not suicide.\n\nGoldstein\'s act was an act of terror in the Cave of the Patriarchs, granted.  It was not a suicide attack any more than  Palestinian terrorist attacks of similar nature against Jews -- are suicide attacks -- of which there have been too many to recall.");
AddReply(362467,"Steve, Goldstein was a martyrdom operration - Kidush hashem ","Assaf","NYC","11/17/08","Yes, of course. Goldstein massacred 30 innocent people and sacrificed himself for his deviated idea of glorifying God. Judaism has a name for this action - Kisush Hashem. ");
AddReply(362461,"#3: One man\'s terrorist is not another man\'s freedom fighter","Steve","U.S.","11/17/08","What Begin did during the Mandate can be defined as terrorism, Begin was not a terrorist any more than (for instance) the U.S. is a state sponsor of terrorism.\n\nThough American firebombings (terror bombings) of German cities during WWII were acts of terrorism, they were in response to Nazi atrocities and terrorism.\n\nSame held true for Irgun.  Irgun\'s terror was \"in response\" to Arab terrorism and British atrocities.  Great Britain choked off Jewish immigration from Nazi occupied Europe, thereby consigning 6 million Jews to mass slaughter at the hands of the Nazis.  In other words Irgun terror was specific and responsive, just like the Allied terror bombings of Nazi Germany.\n\nTerrorism for Yassir Arafat, Mahmoud Abbas, for Fatah and Hamas is a way of life.  Jihad terrorism against innocent civilians, against Christians and Jews is a Qur\'anic obligation until the day of judgment. ");
AddReply(362442,"#3: Goldstein was a suicide / martyrdom operation?","Steve","US","11/17/08","Like Palestinians jihadists that strap bombs on the bodies of their young martyrs to blow themselves up?  Even on young women and young boys? \n\nI have often asked jihad apologists to explain what Christians and Jews do that in any way compares to Palestinian jihadist martyrdom or to the 9/11 martyrdom operations in New York and Washington. \n\nYours has got to be the best example I\'ve read yet!");
AddReply(362437,"Logicon, care to risk your life? Join the IDF","Assaf","NYC","11/17/08","Yes, most Israelis are tired of wars and the constant demand to sacrifice their or loved one\'s lives for unrealistic ideals pushed by a zealot minority. Living in the USA these past 5 years I met many good Jews who support Israel unconditionally, in times of wars and in times of pursuing peace. They understand that peace comes with a price tag and that eternal wars are a recipe for social breakdown. I say, if you are so strong in your convictions, do the right thing according to your beliefs and make Aliah. Join the IDF and risk your own life protecting the settlers instead of calling others to do that for you. ");
AddReply(362404,"Tired..","Logicon","GA  USA","11/17/08","I love Israel and I wish things could get better there, but I am so tired of reading about their problems.  The reason I am tired is because the Israelis and their government cause their own problems.  They are weak and cowardly and won\'t stand up to the terrorists.  All the Israeli government does is help the terrorists to kill more Israelis. It makes me mad, which makes me want to scream to them to STOP being cowards and stand up to your enemies like you used to do in the past.  What has changed in the last 30 years that you can\'t STAND UP and be proud of who you are and what you have accomplished over these years. ");
AddReply(362385,"Well false prophets never get what they want","Windsong ","London","11/17/08","");
AddReply(362375,"One man\'s terrorist is another man\'s freedom fighter","Assaf","NYC","11/17/08","Seems to me that only when the Palestinian convert to Judaism and become Zionist shall the settler\'s establishment regard them as humans. Until then their legitimate collective will for self determination and statehood be regarded as terrorism. May I remind you that Begin and Shamir were regarded as terrorists and that the Irgun, Lechi and the Stern Gang were targeting civilians? May I remind you that the first suicide attack against civilians in the occupied territories was committed by Baruch Goldstein? Israel should help the secular and pragmatic (no, not Zionist) movement in Palestine and reach an agreement with them before the likes of Hamas and fanatic extremist rule the Palestinian society.");
AddReply(362359,"Another disappointing piece","Steve","US","11/17/08","Dr. Cravatts wrote, Mahmoud Abbas\' \"cherished  path of the shahids\" is clearly not what President George Bush had in mind when he established the Road Map,  \n\nHow does Dr. Cravatts know what Mr. Bush had in mind when he established his Saudi-backed Road Map?  Mr. Abbas is not the only jihadist killer Bush embraced prior to and after 9/11.\n\nOther Israeli news-sites have been less generous toward George W. Bush.  One columnist last week rightly condemned Bush\'s refusal to define the enemy post 9/11. \"The men who attacked the US on September 11, 2001, were more than simply terrorists. They had a plan and a cause: They were Muslim jihadists,\" wrote the columnist.\n\nMy guess is the vast majority of Arutz readers believe in Mr. Bush; they believe Bush is a man of decency and integrity. \n\nThus we are not likely to see much if any criticism of immoral Bush policy on this site");
AddReply(362206,"peres has his eyes closed...","izak","ramat gan","11/17/08","No danger of peres reading this and learning something, he has his eyes closed...\'making peace\'. (?)");

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